Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

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Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby nuno1980 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:00 pm

nuno1980 Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:00 pm
Hello, guys! :) But this thread is very important!

Render caustics are (almost) cleaned:

Sun sizes / resolutions screen - 1002x602 .... / 1920x1080 . / 3840x2160
0.1x (on Saturn)........................... - 13,500k spp* / 4,000k spp* / 1,000k spp*
1x (on Earth)................................ - 260k** .......... / 75.5k ........... / 18.9k
2x.................................................. - 78k ................ / 23k ............... / 5.75k
4x ................................................. - 23k ................ / 6.8k .............. / 1.7k
8x ................................................. - 7k .................. / 2.1k .............. / 525
10x ............................................... - 4.9k ............... / 1.45k ............ / 360

"spp" - samples per pixel

VERY IMPORTANT: do not forget to disable "caustic blur" from default at PMC settings. If we set to 10k-reject to may get some noises (noises colored if any specular material has dispersion) then we try more spp.

* - we can't increase "Max. samples" from 256k using OR 2.24.2 :( But IMPORTANT!!! - we'll change "Max. samples" from default as 500 to 0 to get infinite spp using newer version of OR.

Do you like this thread? :D

If you want any other planet then contact me. ;)
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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby nuno1980 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:42 pm

nuno1980 Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:42 pm
I investigated caustics... but I would need to increase from 23 kS/px to 50 kS/px at sun size 4x because this increase of S/px reduces noises colored for other things (not caustics). ;)

Sun size 4x at 25 kS/px
wihout noise_sun size 4x_10k-reject.PNG

This image has to seem few noises colored. ;)

Sun size 1x at 256 kS/px
wihout noise_sun size 1x_10k-reject.PNG

This image is cleaned and looks pretty well! :D

PMC settings:
27-depth both diff+spec
10k-reject
parallelism 1

"Ice" material:
reflection 0.930
transmission 1.000
ior 1.299
coefficient dispersion 0.003


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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby Elvissuperstar007 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:26 am

Elvissuperstar007 Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:26 am
ice in the material necessary to tick the fake shadows
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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby nuno1980 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:48 am

nuno1980 Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:48 am
Elvissuperstar007 wrote:ice in the material necessary to tick the fake shadows
I do never like fake shadows as fake caustics because it looks BAD caustics rendered = no "real-life" and I deserve much "real-life". lool

But I wait new kernel as maybe progressive photon mapping (PPM) for much shorter time render than PMC. :)
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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby djart » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:50 pm

djart Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:50 pm
nuno1980 wrote:
Elvissuperstar007 wrote:ice in the material necessary to tick the fake shadows
I do never like fake shadows as fake caustics because it looks BAD caustics rendered = no "real-life" and I deserve much "real-life". lool

But I wait new kernel as maybe progressive photon mapping (PPM) for much shorter time render than PMC. :)


Whats lool? "Laughing out out loud"...

But anyway, you do a very good job by giving unnecassery information to the community :)
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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby nuno1980 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:34 pm

nuno1980 Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:34 pm
djart wrote:Whats lool? "Laughing out out loud"...
yeah. ;) But "lol" - looool, lolol or lloll...
NOTE: I'm sorry for bad english due to mute ;)

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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby nuno1980 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:21 pm

nuno1980 Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:21 pm
See differences of caustics between 3 images at S/px and resolution screen about teaport:

- at 360x216 - 150 kS/px
test 360x216 at 150k-S per px.PNG


- at 1002x602 - ~19,337 S/px
test 1002x602 at 19337 S per px.PNG

360x216 and 1002x602 seem to be same caustics and same noises.

- at same resolution screen - 150 kS/px
2 sun settings default except 14.5h.PNG


Higher resolution screen = better caustics and less noises at 150 kS/px :) but longer render time. ;)

I'll buy OR in my anniversary (on july) but maybe few next months. :)

--> Do you like this? - but IMPORTANT!! Should respond me it. ;)
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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby bepeg4d » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:42 am

bepeg4d Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:42 am
Good tests nuno, have you tried by rendering at double or quad for few samples and then down scaling at the original resolution?
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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby gabrielefx » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:11 am

gabrielefx Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:11 am
teapot test is not ok,
when you involve many objects in interior spaces you will need 8 Titan X to get a clean image.
Fox exteriors PMC is useless, pt is a lot faster especially if you set GI clamp to 1. Also using PT with GI set to 1 you have to use caustic blur if you have metallic or very reflective objects in the scene.
For interiors you can use pmc but you need 8 fast gpus, it's better to use pt, Octane will generate sharper images, well defined texture and less noise in dark areas.
I never used glossy and specular samples at high values except you have several glass layers, I always use 8-16, rarely 24.
Caustics are useful only if you create a pool.
Don't use dispersion because it generates noise.

regards
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Re: Render caustics cleaned at PMC - s/px & sun sizes

Postby nuno1980 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:44 pm

nuno1980 Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:44 pm
bepeg4d wrote:Good tests nuno, have you tried by rendering at double or quad for few samples and then down scaling at the original resolution?
ciao beppe
:)
No, 3 images are original. But I'll downscale to 1280x800 (eg) for blur by AA noises from 2560x1600 (eg) after OR bought. :)

For downscale, open any PNG image with Paint, zoom out from 100% to 33% or 50% to lower resolution screen and capture (press keys ctrl+print) it. Run 2nd Paint program to paste this image captured and cut from it to image rendered. ;)


gabrielefx wrote:teapot test is not ok,
when you involve many objects in interior spaces you will need 8 Titan X to get a clean image.
Fox exteriors PMC is useless, pt is a lot faster especially if you set GI clamp to 1. Also using PT with GI set to 1 you have to use caustic blur if you have metallic or very reflective objects in the scene.
For interiors you can use pmc but you need 8 fast gpus, it's better to use pt, Octane will generate sharper images, well defined texture and less noise in dark areas.
I never used glossy and specular samples at high values except you have several glass layers, I always use 8-16, rarely 24.
Caustics are useful only if you create a pool.
Don't use dispersion because it generates noise.

regards
My test is good!! :evil:

Your tips about 8 GPU's is good but I haven't very big ("professional") money. But I'll upgrade to new GeForce x80 Titan (Pascal) in Christmas and Pascal with HBM2 will be ~10x faster than Maxwell at GPU computing only. :D After X80 Titan released, we'll review surprise and very good result using OR. :)

Do you deserve "real-life"? If you respond me "yes" then should correct render and specular material settings:
- PMC kernel with:
24-depth (diff+glossy) for 1 clear glass only or between 100- and 300-depth for many clear glasses and/or few mirrors or for 1 3D star glass;
paralellism 1;
no caustic blur;
max GI;
5k or 10k reject.

- specular material with:
reflection between 0.9 and 0.98;
correct index of refraction* if it has dipsersion then should reduce índex dispersed as índex original from index original;
must enable dispersion with correct value*

* - see https://refractiveindex.info/ and do formulas**

** - formulas:

Code: Select all
B = (n_d - 1)/V_d*((0.48613^2*0.65627^2)/(0.65627^2 - 0.48613^2))

F and C = F and C wavelengthes - If wavelength = 589.3 nm then should use F = 486.13 nm and C = 656.27 nm


n_d_dispersed = n_d_original - 10/3*B

B -> dispersion coefficient
n_d -> refractive index
V_d -> abbe number
n_d_dispersed - refractive index dispersed if the dispersion is enabled, for Octane Render software only


If you have any doubt about formulas, contact me. ;)

You may not learn abbe number/dispersion because you haven't Chemical and/or Laboratory required. :P
NOTE: I'm sorry for bad english due to mute ;)

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