Why is there a difference between Multiply Node and Composite Texture Node + Multiply Blend?

Sub forum for help and tutorials.

Moderators: ChrisHekman, aoktar

User avatar
Delizade
Licensed Customer
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:38 pm
Location: Istanbul

Hi,

Today, I wanted to change the overall color of an HDRI map using the Composite Texture node (since I wanted to add additional processes other than just a color change). I added two texture nodes: one for the HDRI and one for the RGB Spectrum. I set the blending mode of the first texture node (RGB Spectrum) to Multiply.

However, I realized that the brightest areas were dimmed. I couldn't fix that, so I tried using the Multiply node, and I got the correct mix.

Why is there a difference between the two Multiply operations, as you can see below:

CompositeTexture+Multiply Blend
A-CompositeTexture+Multiply.png
Only_Multiply_node
B-Only_Multiply_node.png
-
User avatar
bepeg4d
Octane Guru
Posts: 10356
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:02 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Sorry, but I cannot reproduce the issue, the result is the same with both setup here:
IMG_4615.jpeg
Do you mind to share your scene with assets?

ciao,
Beppe
skientia
Licensed Customer
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:50 am
Contact:

The "Clamp" checkbox must be unchecked (disabled).

Before / After with AgX (via OCIO or the Output AOV system natively) and HDRI source:

Enabled:
Image

Disabled:
Image
Attachments
octane-tex-composite-clamp-checkbox-on.jpeg
octane-tex-composite-clamp-checkbox-off.jpeg
User avatar
Delizade
Licensed Customer
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:38 pm
Location: Istanbul

Thank you for your time, @beppe and @skientia.

Sorry, I couldn't prepare a simple scene earlier, but you can find it attached.

@skientia, it's good to hear about that option! I was surprised that the C.Texture node had it because I spent about two hours on this issue. After reading your answer, I tried it, but I couldn't find any clamp option. I hope it's there somewhere and I just couldn't find it...
Cinema 4d 2025.0.1
Octane OctaneRender 2024.1.2-R2
Cinema_4D_BSHvfyaIdJ.jpg
compTexBlend_vs_Multiply.rar
(16.86 MiB) Downloaded 28 times
skientia
Licensed Customer
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:50 am
Contact:

Perhaps the Clamp option has not been exposed.
Aoktar would be able to confirm.
User avatar
Delizade
Licensed Customer
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:38 pm
Location: Istanbul

I use this node a lot, and who knows how long it's been like this. I hope it gets fixed—at the very least, the clamp could be kept closed by default...
User avatar
bepeg4d
Octane Guru
Posts: 10356
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:02 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Confirmed, thanks skientia, the Clamp parameter is not exposed, and will be fixed in one of the next updates.

But Delizade please, avoid to use C4D Bitmap nodes with OctaneRender, this is a big mistake from an expert user like you, especially for lighting.
Please always use the ImageTexture node instead.

ciao,
Beppe
User avatar
Delizade
Licensed Customer
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:38 pm
Location: Istanbul

Beppe, after your message, I feel like I just discovered something about a woman I’ve lived with for years—something that was right under my nose, yet I had never noticed and completely misunderstood. Such a dumb situation, really...
You see, for the past six years of actively using this plugin, for years, I believed that this object was using a Bitmap node by default. I had just accepted it and thought there must be a specific reason for it.

However, after reading your message today, I found your message very surprising because of that I made a test and realized that when I dropped the Env object it actually assigns an Image Texture Node. The reason I never noticed this before is that I always drag and drop the image onto the object's Texture input field after adding it to the scene (at the main tab input). But when assigning the texture through the "File" input in the "shader" tab, the Image Texture is retained. I never once dragged and dropped an image directly into the File input through Shader tab.

For years, I had to manually convert the Bitmap node to an Image Texture whenever I needed to do something specific—not because of the reason you mentioned, but because I needed a Transform node, etc. In fact, I used to think that the RotX and RotY sliders didn’t work because I modified Bitmap node. What a weird moment!

On that note, I’d also like to mention that it would be great if the RotX and RotY sliders continued to function even after adding another node after the Image Texture or Bitmap node.
skientia
Licensed Customer
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:50 am
Contact:

Rule of thumb with renderers: favoring their native tools and options as much as possible (texture nodes, shaders / materials, lights, etc) as well as baking simulation / animation for instance to an Alembic file.

This saves trouble-solving time and reduces potential risks of incompatibility and therefore rendering errors.

Some renderers (including Octane) support the host-software specifics options, some quality of life efforts by developers but in most cases, it's best to stick to the rule of thumb.
User avatar
bepeg4d
Octane Guru
Posts: 10356
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:02 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Hi Delizade,

great to hear my suggestion was useful!

About RotX/ RotY, just click on the green icon to create an UVW Transform node that plugin can rotate:
IMG_4652.jpeg
ciao,
Beppe
Post Reply

Return to “Help / Tutorials”