Material Issues - Stonemasons Wintercastle - IRAY

[Hubby72]

Hi,

more and more i have issues with new product which no longer have 3DL Materials within.
And i really think that it will be an issue in future.

Here is an example with the new Wintercastle by Stonemason :

Viewport and Octane are looking weird. The Iray render top right corner looks awesome.
To be honest - i do not want to miss future products of Stonemason. But i already had some issues with his Urban Sprawl 3 very similar to this.

Anything that could be done ?

[face_off]

This sounds more like an issue for Stonemason than me? Can you identify the specific part of the Iray material which Octane is not converting correctly?

Paul

[Hubby72]

You mean he really cares about the 20 octane users ? But for me it is more an issue when not able to use new content.
In more in half of the new products there are no 3DL materials more included and right now OCDS is not able to handle all kinds of Iray Mats. For users it does not care on which site the issue is - as long you can not use more and more if the new content it will be an issue for octane users.

In that case here it seems like the materials have different layers. The snow layers are ignored. This is surface tab of the ground.

[face_off]

You mean he really cares about the 20 octane users ?

He probably /does/ care. Has anyone reported these issues to him?

In that case here it seems like the materials have different layers.

Octane does not support layers (although you can achieve similar effects with material mixes). I would need to see all the inputs into the layers to determine if this could be replicated in Octane or not. However it would be difficult to make converting IRay layered materials to Octane materials an automatic process. The up-coming Open Shader Language feature of Octane 3.10 may provide some solutions in this area though.

Paul

[Hubby72]

Tried a bit with mixes materials.... closer but difficult.
It is not only that the layers are ignored. Also the UV Transforms are ignored. So i have to "trial and error" a bit. Reminds me very similar to the Terradome 3 issue.

So any chance that transforms are correctly read anyhow ?
And why it is not possible to recognize layered textures and create mixed materials from it ?

[face_off]

So any chance that transforms are correctly read anyhow ?
And why it is not possible to recognize layered textures and create mixed materials from it ?

If you can send me a sample scene with a material demonstrating the problem on a sphere, I can take a closer look.

Paul

[DrHemulen]

Have you tried just applying a snow material from the liveDB?

[Hubby72]

Have you tried just applying a snow material from the liveDB?

Assigning the snow mats from livedb looks not good.
It just assign snow then to tho whole terrain. But in original it has stone covered with snow. I do not know if i can assign snow material just as a second material.

But to be honest. I am very close in start working with iray. 4 of my last 10 bought products are not working properly in octane. That is a state i can not work with. In some cases you can reassign livedb mats but at least you are changing the whole scenes to something different you sometimes do not want.
I also do not see any progress in ocds concerning these issues. And if i ask here there is always time for an arrogant answer like Paul's first answer.

[DrHemulen]

It's not really that different to when we started out with Octane. You were always expecting to do a bunch of material work yourself, as 3Dlight materials didn't really have all the information needed for good Octane materials. When Iray arrived that didn't change, but the fact that there was an out-of-the-box solution that just works, suddenly made Octane seem like a whole lot of unnessecary work.

I wish you could make a simple conversion between materials, but I accept there are technical reasons that you can't - like new features in Iray, and shaders that very specifically use them. Like I said in another thread, if we want this to be easier, we need to share our solutions with each other. We can't expect the DAZ content artists to spent hours building shaders for the 20 mentioned potential customers. If you spent time getting this to work, YOU can sell your shader setup to the rest of us.

I sometimes use Iray and sometimes Octane, it depends on what I want to do, and if I have the patience to wait 2 minutes before Iray starts doing anything and/or the complexity of the shader building task in Octane,

[Hubby72]

And that is wrong.

I personally expected excact what we have now. Through Iray the content market for DAZ advances with new features and OCDS is still at the same state as in version 2.X except that we now render through V3 Engine which makes at least no difference for us.
DAZ Studio advanced very fast through Iray. The Octane Standalone also goes forward. But the plugin stays the same.
In some cases it is very difficult to get an acceptable Material as like in the original product. As it was 3DL it was never like this.
And it will be not Iray or DAZ that will change and make OCDS will work better. If you want to use third party tools the third party tools needs to change to be the ones that are compatible and usable.
The actual state of product shows clearly that 3DL is out. In most product there are no Mats for 3DL anymore. And OCDS still try to convert mats like it would be 3DL. I personally think this needs a redesign.
But every time the only answers coming back are "..would be difficult", "perhaps with a never version" or "not possible", Not supported".
We did not received any new feature since..i do not know anymore. Not even the ones from Octane standalone.
I also accept that there are technical reasons why it is like is now but - hey - if there is even not a try to solve things this will never change. In my job i have to solve problems everyday , some by doing a complete step back.

I understand that Paul has difficulties to catch up the problems without test scenes , but as these issues are in new products i will not forward my bought product for easy. This issue for example is not reproducable with some cubes and lights.
I tried now for the second time to point out that new products are not working properly. And when i count in my library and my lastly bought product there are close to be majority.
Daz is not C4D. We are not creating objects by ourselves we us the market and buy em. If the product or better the results using it are not satisfying then something is wrong.
Perhaps OCDS is obselete.