Suggestion needed for Render job graph

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Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby vijay_thirukonda » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:49 am

vijay_thirukonda Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:49 am
Hi all,

Thanks for everyone who tried the new render job we added to the OctaneRender.

As per request, I'm planning to add the output directory in the render job node itself, but we will still have option to override it from render dialog.

And many requested to add a system to run multiple render job.

Currently we have two options:

- List all render job graphs in the render dialog and allow the user to pick the ones that should be rendered.

Render dialog will be similar to current dialog, but will have list of render job graphs and its frame settings.

- A render job group node

A new render job group dialog will only have start, close buttons, etc. without frame settings

Note: if we need frame settings here, then it will be similar to the first option, with a list of render jobs and its frame settings.
The frame settings in a render job dialog is the total result frames of the render job(not animation frames), this is allowing us to render sub sections or to restart from where we stopped.
And will not make more sense, if it is inside the render job graph itself.

Current render job dialog
render_job_graph_run.png


Please let me know, What do you prefer or you have any new suggestions?

Vijay
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby calus » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:18 pm

calus Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:18 pm
A render job group node is prefered

Assuming render jobs are going to be queued (it wouldn't make any sens to render jobs in paralelle like render targets inside a render job, as each job is going to have different start and end frame),
We also need a status per job and maybe a cancel button per job.
About the dialog window there shouldn't be any export setting at all here, don't need a start boutton either, just start immediately the render.
If you need more export settings from the user at this point, it means the batch render node is missing something (like for example the output folder).
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby calus » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:35 pm

calus Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:35 pm
Also I'm wondering if we are not overcomplicating things because of obvious missing features in Octane:

The typical case for batch render jobs is to render several shots in a scene,
obviously each shot have a different render target(different camera) and a different frame range.

There's actually no way to render at once several shots inside Octane ... not very animation friendly :(

Maybe a better idea is to add "start and end frame" attribute to the animation node wich could be used in batch render script and render job node ?
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby vijay_thirukonda » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:59 pm

vijay_thirukonda Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:59 pm
calus wrote:Also I'm wondering if we are not overcomplicating things because of obvious missing features in Octane:
The typical case for batch render jobs is to render several shot in a scene,
obviously each shot have a different render target(different camera) and a different frame range.

There's actually no way to render at once several shots inside Octane ... not very animation friendly :(

Maybe a better idea is to add start and end frame to the animation node wich could be used in batch render script and render job node ?



Hi calus,

We do have animation frame settings in the render job node and will add output folder option to the node as well.

Once we complete rendering of multiple render job feature . You can render different render targets with a different animation frame range in a single go/button.

render_job_graph_node.png


Thanks
Vijay
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby calus » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:13 pm

calus Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:13 pm
vijay_thirukonda wrote:We do have animation frame settings in the render job node and will add output folder option to the node as well.

Yes this is a frame range override for all render targets in the render job,

my point is :
because of a design flaw in Octane (missing frame range per render target),
we finally end up with the "multiple render job feature", maybe an over-complicated solution.

A simpler solution might be to fix the design adding frame range attribute to the animation node.
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby calus » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:22 pm

calus Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:22 pm
Also please change the default filename template to something actually usable,
The frame tag %f must always be at the end of the name (before extension), not the pass tag %p,
else the image sequence is not readable by any software :shock:

(Yes I know this is the same default template as in the batch render script,
should also be changed there :) )
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby gah5118 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:35 am

gah5118 Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:35 am
would it be possible to do a combination of the two.

in other words, have a render node group which you can connect all, but when the box comes up, it has check boxes like in the other option. this way, you can add to it or subtract as needed at the last second. also having the total frame range isn't a bad idea... when i have render failures it's helpful to be able to start where it failed.

as far as frame range per render target.... just make separate render jobs for different render targets. it's how I'm using it and is working out great. when the master render job node is implemented, then it will be a charm.
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby vijay_thirukonda » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:48 am

vijay_thirukonda Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:48 am
calus wrote:Also please change the default filename template to something actually usable,
The frame tag %f must always be at the end of the name (before extension), not the pass tag %p,
else the image sequence is not readable by any software :shock:

(Yes I know this is the same default template as in the batch render script,
should also be changed there :) )



we changed the default filename template in release 3.04.3
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby vijay_thirukonda » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:49 am

vijay_thirukonda Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:49 am
gah5118 wrote:would it be possible to do a combination of the two.

in other words, have a render node group which you can connect all, but when the box comes up, it has check boxes like in the other option. this way, you can add to it or subtract as needed at the last second. also having the total frame range isn't a bad idea... when i have render failures it's helpful to be able to start where it failed.

as far as frame range per render target.... just make separate render jobs for different render targets. it's how I'm using it and is working out great. when the master render job node is implemented, then it will be a charm.



Thanks for the suggestion. Noted down and will discuss it with the team.
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Re: Suggestion needed for Render job graph

Postby doca » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:23 am

doca Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:23 am
I already suggested something like this:
output.jpg

But it doesn't have to be that way, it is just a suggestion. My point is that we have to define output and frame range much earlier in the workflow, and that will allow to run multiple render target jobs at once.
In production (and believe me, I'm 10+ years in it), current system is not flexible at all. It has to be!!! Flexibility is the most important parameter, so ability to define multiple parameters at once is big advantage too. Standalone is nodal and what is the point not to use that advantage?
When doing this render job system, you have to think that way.
What is important:
1. Flexibility
2. Simplicity
3. Overrides.
And common workflow goes this order:
1. Define render parameters/settings for each render target
2. Define frame ranges
3. Define output paths
4. Define file types
5. Hit render
First 3 stages are unique parameters for each render target/pass/layer call it as you want. When you define unique parameters, then we connect further to the render job where parameters are common for all render jobs. And that means file types, skipping rendered, compression, overall frame range override... etc. It is not acceptable to choose if render is tonemapped or not at this stage. Render job has to respect "Camera Imager" decisions. What if I want one render target to be tonemapped and other not? So, render job parameters have to be common for all render targets, it has to be simple, it has to have checkboxes to select render targets that will be rendered, and one big "RENDER ALL/SELECTED" button. Hit it and go to pub. :-)
Maybe, I missed something, but I believe that something similar to this kind of workflow will make life easier to all.

I'll use this discussion just emphasize some bad things related to overrides/render layers/mattes... Current render layer system is kind of ok, but why there is no option to group objects and define object layer parameters? So, what will be good? It will be good to be able to group objects in the partition and to override common parameters for that group at once with Object Layer node. Also ability to override all the materials in the group/partition with single material.
That gives flexibility. When Object Layer/material node is connected to the Group/partition you override parameters of the objects in the group, when there is no ObjLayer/material connected, group respects unique materials/objLayer settings of the objects in group as defined.
Also, matting system like CRYPTOMATTE or similar is very, very, very desirable. :-)
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