Re internet connection

[ROUBAL]

Who use a beta software as a tool to make money?

In other situation, I would have agreed on that point, but I have never met before a situation of
a software requiring to invest in 1500 Euros of hardware and a new OS for testing it in good conditions. So as it has been a very big effort for me (and I'm not alone in this situation), discovering now more constraints is really bad news.

I think many users have spend much more money in useless things with less fun

I agree with that, but you must also know that some starving artists invest every single cent in their tools in the hope of working better and each new constraint is a real pain !

[GeorgoSK]

Since the other thread was locked...I am just gonna chime in here.

I fully support Octane's team decision. I changed my outlook on pirated software a lot last year. For company esp. small like this, it's incredibly hard to protect itself.

From what Radiance said, I gathered they gave it a lot of thought. It should be fine.

Complaining is ok...but think before you write..

[radiance]

roubal, you really should'nt worry, as in my PM,
you can configure a hardware ethernet router of 29 EUR to just give your workstation access to octane, while blocking any other activity in both sides, including accessing the internet (everything but not octane) from the workstation.

I'll explain this in detail in a mail tomorrow.

Radiance

[joelegecko]

According to european laws, customers are entitled to get their money back since the product they paid for has not been delivered yet ( people paid for the final product, not the beta ). I'm quite sure you can't enforce such a protection if that protection wasn't specified in the license agreement people did agree with when they bought Octane.

You can't change it and force customers to comply to it after the agreement has been sealed ( at least not without their consent ). Right now Octane is perfectly working offline and I don't see any feature listed in the 1.0 features list that requires to be connected online. I even find it insulting to try and make people believe anti-piracy is a consequence of these new features while you openly admitted to have worked on such anti-piracy measures for several months.

I'm not trying to say piracy isn't hurting your business. It is. As a paying customer I'm not responsible for that.

I'll be waiting for the 2.3 version but from my experience, having to be connected to use some software only makes things worse. I will let you prove me wrong on that.

[gir1dhar]

Hello,

I don't care about the philosophical problems about the need of Internet for the program to run.
I can plug my computer to the internet. And/or spend 100 euros/dollars on a router.
I have a paid broadband connection
The problem is that where I live sometimes (and quite often) Internet doesn't work. Plain and simple. And I need to work, and meet deadlines every day.

How do I do?

Best Regards

[ROUBAL]

Well, I haven't been able to sleep a single hour.

@Radiance, you say "don't worry", but my problem will not be solved for 29 Euros.

I have serious reasons to worry :

1 - By the simple fact of asking my only clients to change my configuration to acces to internet, even through a "secured" solution, I most probably have already lost them. They have been clear :No internet connection. As I can't give them a warranty of zero failure, once the machine will be connected to the net, I will be no more able to use the "insulated workstation argument" and I will no more be able to do confidential works for potential future clients if I can't use this argument. Now, even if I do a step back and say to my clients that I will come back to the previous software I used, I'm sure that they will always have a doubt.

Despite big expenses and effort for advertising, I have had no new clients in the past two years and the market around here is mainly visualisation of confidential prototypes. I add that in my town there are two CG highschools and many CG studios, so companies needing CG work have the choice of the offer, and there is no doubt that they will found easily someone else able to give them the security warranty they require.

2 - I have spent hours on the net and I confirm that the currently available software used to manage the Orange Livebox is not compatible with Windows 7 64 bits (remember that you adviced me several times to switch to Win 7 x64).

3 - My ethernet card (which is a part of my P5K motherboard) seems to be the only part of my computer not compatible with Windows 7. It was not a problem until now because I didn't need this PC to be connected to the web. I have a fully functional workstation with rather good performances (Intel Quad Xtreme 9650 - 3GHz -8 GB RAM) that costed me more than 3000 Euros after some improvements (I dont count in the Cubix which is an external thing) and I will not change my motherboard.

4 - As for several people here, my internet connection is not available 100% of the time.

5 - As already said, I invested a lot in hardware and OS replacement (around 1500 Euros) to get the best of Octane because it is a great software, but I never had thought that Internet connection would be required to use it ! If I had been warned I would never had even tried it !

I had subscribed to the beta testing program of a nice software named VideoTrace, and I have left it because the current beta version requires internet connection.

[gristle]

Hi Roubal,

You are in a difficult place. I have signed various NDAs and General Terms and Conditions with several clients, but none with an insulation from net clause.
Sure, one client, if I breach NDA it is 5000 euro per day the breach is in place I am liable for. They leave the security up to me. My fileserver is semi isolated (no direct net connection) but my workstations are not. I guess it is down to an ethics call on your behalf, little white lie to your client, or look elsewhere for your application needs (seems to be alot around at present). What if you take the little white lie path and your client finds out. Instant reputation erosion. Might not be worth it if you ask me.

Andrew/Gristle.

[David]

Roubal,

I fully agree what you say here.

Moreover this is not a slow connection problem but the fact that at some time, for me for instance, Connexion failed because of severe weather condition.

I have no doubt that this coming fall we will get here in Cevennes as usually some "episodes Cevenols" that will again break out all internet connexion for several days (from the beginning of this years I have been 17 days without internet because of lightning strinking a relay transmission).

The fact is that all this seems not to be legal (from European laws perspective).
I explain : Radiance terms was that customers paid for the beta till the full version, At that time the condition was "by activation software up to 3 times" I agreed with that terms conditions when I bought it. It would be very amazing that the law allow Radiance to force his customers to accept a new one, that could prevent them to use Octane whenever they want, not until after full version 1. At least I will have the right when connexion problems arise this fall to ask for total refund for not being able to use Octane.

I understand, Radiance, that you want to protect Octane which is really good but you should know that there is abslolutely no existing efficient protection to prevent pirates from cracking a software, if they want to.

Why not allow, in such a situation without connexion, the customer to be able to launch Octane for ten times for example till the next connexion ?

[ROUBAL]

@David : your proposal of 10 times offline launching is interesting but doesn't solve any of my own problems : confidentiality constraints imposed by clients and hardware incompatibility. It only allows a bit more mobility and use during FAI failure.

I also agree that changing the conditions of use before the end of the 1.x beta program looks illegal, but for my own, as the cost of Octane is light beside the investment I have put in Hardware and new OS, what I want is not to be refunded. I want to be able to use Octane as it was expected since the beginning, because without Octane my Expensive Cubix Adapter and new GPU are useless as there is no other software currently usable with the Cubix.

I also forgot to mention something that looks important about the mobility problem : one of the advantages of the Cubix box is that a small PCMCIA adapter is available, allowing to use it with a laptop. It makes it a great tool for demos at clients place, in show rooms or to work anywhere.

With the constraint of an internet connection, this great advantage is lost.

I don't know if Cubix company is aware of Octane team decision, but as partners they should, because they will probably miss some sales on this great product due to that new internet constraint reducing mobility !

[Lutze]

Hi Radiance and all

I was very angry yesterday and almost half of the night. Now, in the morning I have cooled down a bit. I still don´t think this new system is a good idea but I am ready to give your team time to bring us 2.3. Then I will come to final conclusion. I think we should all calm down a bit and see what the near future brings. It is not so, that I will not be able to work with octane and the new system in place. I would just hate it to change my workflow ie. the way I am connected to the internet. Yet I believe that you are building some great piece of software and you have done many things right in the last months. Even if this new system will prove bad for me ... well nobody and nothing is perfect.

Radiance, I think you brought this information up too soon, before you could proof with the software that all will be right.

So lets give Radiance a break, let him work on the software we all love. When the 2.3 is out we will have much to argue and we won´t argue over unlayed eggs.

Lutze