Share materials

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Share materials

Postby Elele » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:14 pm

Elele Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:14 pm
What is the best way to share a material I made? I'm thinking of adding the Octane materials with my next product, but I'm not sure how.

EDIT: also is there an official octane watermark that i can add to the promo images?

Thanks.
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Re: Share materials

Postby TRRazor » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:37 pm

TRRazor Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:37 pm
What is the best way to share a material I made?


You could just create the materials in Octane and then save the empty scene as a scene file.
Distribute that with the package and users can afterwards save it as their presets. - Not entirely sure if the plug.-in offers the OctaneRender materials to be included in a MAT file.

From what I know there are no official watermarks, but I've been using this one quite often: http://vrworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... -logo1.jpg
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Re: Share materials

Postby DrHemulen » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:14 pm

DrHemulen Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:14 pm
The plugin seems to save octane data when you save DAZ materials, so it should be pretty straight forward. There was some talk of this not working well when distributing (paths and whatnot) but I think it's worth experimenting with.
I think the main issue is that the Octane materials are encoded in that crazy alphanumerical string in the .dufs and that may contain absolute paths.
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Re: Share materials

Postby Elele » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:20 pm

Elele Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:20 pm
Thanks, I guess I'll just add a scene with the material to be sure. If it does save the material with the figure it should be there anyways :)
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Re: Share materials

Postby linvanchene » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:04 pm

linvanchene Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:04 pm
TRRazor wrote:Not entirely sure if the plug.-in offers the OctaneRender materials to be included in a MAT file.


I did some new tests to see what works with the new build.
It seems you can save scenes, material presets etc. the same way you would when saving content with 3Delight and Iray materials.

The OctaneRender materials are saved along.
You are just not able to see and select OR specific nodes in the material presets save options.

I can confirm that it is possible to

- save scenes as .duf file with OctaneRender materials
- save material presets with all materials for all surface zones of an object
- save material presets for individual surface zones of an object


Not yet tested

- save presets for wearables, props, etc.
In theory if it works for scenes and individual material presets the process should also work for wearables and props etc.


- - -

I add some images to illustrate how this works and include some workflow steps how loading content and materials works in DAZ Studio in general.


It seems important to understand the difference between saving complete scenes, props, wearables that also contain the geometry data and simple material preset files that only contain the material data without geometry.

Saving complete scenes with OctaneRender materials included - has always worked

If you save a complete scene as .duf file you include all the geometry and also the OctaneRender material information for each surface in the scene.

In DAZ Studio select

File/Save as/Scene

Saving wearable(s) with OctaneRender materials included - not yet tested


In this example you can see several presets for "wearable(s)" that load both the geometry and the material information.

Product view example wardrobe.jpg


Things to test:
In DAZ Studio select

File/Save as/Wearable(s)

Check if OctaneRender materials are included.


Each time you click on a preset a complete new set of geometry is added to the scene and with it the default materials.
This also means it will take time to load the presets because the geometry is included.

What is the benefit of Material Presets compared to saving as a complete scene, wearable, actor or prop?

When you select an object in the scene in the smart content tab you can see all material presets that are compatible with the selected object.

In this example the vest was selected in the scene and all the color options for the vest are displayed.

Product view example materials.jpg


When you click on the materials preset only the materials are reloaded. Because the geometry is not loaded the process to change materials is very quickly.
In addition with the help of material presets it is also possible to just load new material options for one surface zone while leaving all the other surface zones of the selected object unchanged.

How are Material Presets created that include OctaneRender material information?

- Select the object in the scene

- In DAZ Studio select

File/Save as/Material(s)

Saving Material Presets for 3Delight & Iray Save as.jpg


- In a pop up window you can now select which specific 3Delight or Iray nodes or surface zones should be included in the material preset.

Saving Material Presets for 3Delight & Iray Options.jpg


3Delight and Iray are both integrated directly into the DAZ Studio surfaces tab.

This direct integration with the DAZ Studio surface tab seems to make it possible that in the save dialogue for the material presets you can choose individual surfaces and even nodes that should be included.

Because OctaneRender is not integrated directly into the DAZ Studio surface tab it seems not possible to select individual nodes to be included or omitted in the material presets.

BUT

You can select the surface zones for which OctaneRender materials should be included. :!:

In this example I created a simple diffuse material directly inside the OctaneRender materials tab.
This means the original surface in 3Delight or Iray OpenGL viewport is still a default color.
Because we only want to create material presets for OctaneRender we do not need to worry about that for now.


The shirt arm is red.
The shirt base is blue.

If you want to save all OctaneRender materials for all surface zones of an object all you have to do is click on accept in the material preset options.

Shirt Arms Red and Base Blue.jpg


If you just want to save a material preset for one surface zone select the surface zone you want and uncheck the others.

In this example we only want the red shirt arms:

Shirt Arms Red.jpg


I also created a material preset for just the blue shirt base.

- In the save location you choose you will find the material presets as .duf file and also an preview image that was automatically generated based on the OpenGL color of the shirt.

Duf files and image preview generated for the material presets.jpg


Note that in the preview image the color of the shirt is still default because in the OpenGL viewport OctaneRender material changes do not show up.
Nevertheless it will only take a few minutes to manually create a preview image based on a product render so nothing to worry about.


- If needed you can also manually move the .duf file and the preview image to another location in your DAZ Studio library.

Shirt Arms Red Materials Preset created.jpg


In this example the material presets show up in my personal library for my edits.

All you have to do now is to click on the material preset and the OctaneRender viewport is updated a second later.

This means all the OctaneRender surface zones in the OctaneRender materials tab are updated automatically with the click of just one button.
There is no more need to tediously drag around material presets saved inside the OcDS materials tab over to the OcDS surface zones.



- - -

How to create material presets for Iray or 3Delight and OctaneRender at the same time?

OctaneRender material presets saved with the described workflow can include 3Delight or Iray materials together with the OctaneRender material presets.

A basic workflow would be:

- customize your materials for 3Delight or Iray in the DAZ Studio surface tab
- auto convert to OctaneRender materials (or create OctaneRender materials from a blank material)
- fine tune the OctaneRender materials
- use the described workflow to export both OctaneRender and the Iray / 3Delight materials together.

- - -

Guess that covers the most important points.
I assume most DAZ3D products artists are better suited to comment on how to usually save materials for their products with Iray / 3Delight.
I tried to add as much information as I could from the OctaneRender side of things.

If someone is up for testing if saving wearables, props, etc. include the OctaneRender materials as well that would be awesome.


Bonus Question: Since which build has this workflow actually worked?


Honestly. No clue at all.
Maybe it was not possible with the first OcDS builds and added later?
Maybe because other things did not work no one actually bothered to try again?

In any case I guess artists can now finally start creating real OctaneRender material presets for their products.
Last edited by linvanchene on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Share materials

Postby sikotik13 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:15 pm

sikotik13 Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:15 pm
For what tiny bit it's worth, from what t_3 said back in the day and my own personal usage, OcDS saves Octane mats along with just about anything that saves in .duf format. I personally used it for scenes as described, wearables as described, props, scene subsets, and material presets. Never tried to save them separately for distribution or anything, but they saved/loaded/moved about just fine (aside from the inherent issues in OcDS itself making some outdated/corrupt, of course).

To answer the bonus question (somewhat) at least since the version of 1.2 that was out when I signed up, as that's when I started saving all of my characters as subsets, and the other relevant things mentioned above as such. Haven't touched OcDS in quite a while, but I expect anything I saved as such is still just floating about in its little undisturbed corner of my hard drive.
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Re: Share materials

Postby Elele » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:59 pm

Elele Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:59 pm
Damn, now that as an answer! :D
But I will still be sticking with saving an empty scene at the moment I think. That has always worked for me and it will also be the easiest way to update later on too.

Thanks all.
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How do I save DAZ Studio material presets with OR Materials...

Postby linvanchene » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:33 pm

linvanchene Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:33 pm
Follow up Tutorial, Read original post first...

How do I save DAZ Studio material presets with OR Materials that do NOT include Iray or 3Delight materials?

As we have seen in the first tutorials Iray or 3Delight materials applied to the selected surface zones will by default be included when saving DAZ Studio material presets. Remember that automatically all the OctaneRender materials are included for the selected surface zones.

If we do not want to save any Iray or 3Delight materials along we have to uncheck any Iray or 3Delight specific nodes but the in the material save options.
Nevertheless in order to still have a surface zone selected the "tags" node still needs to be carried over.


A step by step guide to understand the workflow:


- Place a sphere in the scene

- In the DAZ Studio surface tab switch the diffuse color of the sphere to red

001 Red Diffuse - DAZ Studio Default Shader.jpg


- Use the material auto conversion or create a blank material for the sphere

- In the OcDS Node Graph Editor change the sphere material to a blue glossy material

002 Blue Glossy Material - OcDS NGE.jpg


- In DAZ Studio select File / Save as / Material Preset

- In the DAZ Studio Material Preset save Option remove the checkmark of each entry and only keep the "Tags" option under "General" of the surface zones you want selected

003 Save as Material Preset Select only tags on the surface zone you want.jpg


If you would remove all check marks of all entries under a surface zone the surface zone itself would be deselected and the OR materials for that surface zone would NOT be included.

Therefore the idea is to keep one setting of the surface zone selected that will not have an effect on the existing Iray or 3Delight surface zones when applying the OctaneRender material preset later.
The "Tags" option under General simply included keywords that describe the surface zone and is often not used at all. Therefore it serves as a good place holder to keep the surface zone selected.

- An DAZ Studio Material Preset .duf file and a OpenGL preview image was created in your selected save location

- - -

To test your new OR material preset perform the following steps:

- Create a new scene

- Place a sphere in the scene

- Select the sphere surface with the surface selection tool

- Apply your OctaneRender Material preset

004 Material Preset Preview Image shows openGL color.jpg

Note: The OpenGL preview image of the OR Material Preset shows a red sphere because the color of the 3Delight material of the sphere was red when saving! Even though the red 3Delight Diffuse material settings were not saved a screenshot of the OpenGL viewport was still saved along. Just create a new preview image based on one of your product renders.

Now you can check the results:

- Open the OR viewport

Your blue Glossy OctaneRender material is applied to the sphere. None of the existing DAZ Studio surface zones were changed.

005a Blue Glossy OR Material is applied without changing any of the DAZ Studio surface zones.jpg


005b Blue Glossy OR Material & Default DAZ Studio Shader.jpg


- - -

What is the benefit if saving OctaneRender material presets that do not include Iray or 3Delight materials?
Now you may still wonder
Why would anyone want to create OctaneRender material presets that do not change the existing Iray or 3Delight materials in the scene?

In general someone may want to only include the material information that is needed without having any possible unwanted side effects later.
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Known Issues and Limitations

Postby linvanchene » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:29 pm

linvanchene Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:29 pm
I make a separate post to separate the things that are working from those who have (yet) some issues.
Read trough all previous posts first to better understand what is being done and why.


Known Issues and Limitations with material presets that include "Template" nodes:

In theory the described workflow could have been used to save DAZ Studio material presets with OctaneRender templates.

Unfortunately when trying out that workflow the templates are applied but unfortunately do not keep the original maps already present.

It probably would take the OctaneRender plugin developer to work together with the DAZ Studio developers to make this work directly at loading without additional steps to trigger the map load.

Update / Edit:

Abayliss pointed out that a workaround for the current limitation is to simply use the "Replace Maps" features available when right clicking surface zones in the OcDS material tab.

I will leave this post unchanged and then provide a new step by step guide including the "Replace Maps" feature in a new post:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=51431&start=10#p256894

- - -
- - -

Templates!

In theory if you want to save OctaneRender material template as DAZ Studio material preset you want to make sure that the saved template does NOT overwrite any existing 3Delight or Iray materials in the scene.

The theoretical workflow is:
- place a figure with a 3Delight or Iray material in the scene
- run OcDS Material auto conversion
- apply the template Material to convert the auto conversion to a new material that includes all the maps but uses template values for the OR nodes
- optional: if you do not like the result apply another template

If Iray or 3Delight materials would be included together with the template material preset they would overwrite any existing Iray or 3Delight materials in the scene. Then you would have to reapply the 3Delight or Iray material presets before you can try out another template again.

In practice the issue is that when applying the DAZ Studio material preset the templates are overwriting already existing maps applied to the OcDS surface zones.

- - -
A step by step workflow to follow:

- Create your own Glossy Material Template in the OcDS Node Graph Editor with a template for a diffuse map
Make sure to use some unique Specular, Roughness and Index of Refraction settings.

001 Glossy Template Material OcDS NGE.jpg


- Save as Material Preset and select only the "tags" on the surface zone you want

002 OR Material Template  Save as Material Preset Select only tags on the surface zone you want.jpg


- Create a new scene with a new sphere

- apply any diffuse map to the sphere
In this example I use a map from the "Default Lights and Shaders" product

003 apply any diffuse map to the sphere.jpg


- Use the OcDS Material Autoconversion

004 Autoconverted Sphere with diffuse map applied.jpg


- Make sure to select the sphere surface with the surface selection tool

- Apply the DAZ Studio material preset of the OR template material

005 apply OR template material preset.jpg


Now you can see the issue happening:

- When applying DAZ Studio Material presets the template material is applied but the original maps already present are overwritten in the OcDS materials tab

006 ISSUE DAZ Studio Material presets the template material is applied - maps not kept.jpg


- - -

What does this mean in practice?

The whole purpose of a template material is to apply a specific set of values to an existing OR material while keeping all the maps already applied to the previous material in the OcDS material tab.
Inside OcDS templates are applied by dragging them over from the OcDS "User Presets" to an existing surface zone with an OR material applied.

In this example you can see how the original maps of the previous material are kept but the template materials values are applied:

007 template material applied inside OcDS by draging it over from the User Presets.jpg



When applying templates what is supposed to happen in the OcDS material tab is:

Change the values - keep the maps

Nevertheless if you follow the workflow above and apply OR templates saved as DAZ Studio material preset the following happens:

Change the values - maps are not kept

- - -

Update / Edit:
Thanks to abayliss there is a simple workaround:

- select the surfaces with the template nodes applied
- right click and select "Replace all active maps"

You will find some screenshots and another example workflow in a later post of this thread

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=51431&start=10

- - -

Summary:

For all intents and purposes saving OR materials as DAZ Studio Material presets is working exactly as expected as long as you do not include OR template nodes.

If you include template nodes with DAZ Studio Material presets they are saved properly but when applying them they are working as any other material preset and overwrite existing maps.

- - -
Side Note:

Thank you all for reading.
If someone did follow the workflows and can confirm
- what is working
- what is not working

That would be great.

I did make an effort to try to replicate the workflow again to confirm.
But it would not be the first time that something is working under some circumstances and then when trying again later it will not work or vis versa.
Last edited by linvanchene on Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Share materials

Postby Notiusweb » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:45 am

Notiusweb Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:45 am
***Applause***
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

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