Octane MODO issues

[sethRichardson]

Hi Paul,

I have alot of issues with Octane for MODO. I work with projects that have usually one product but like 10 variations. And this is where Octane kinda hurts me.

1. Normal + Bump gives a very bad result compared to what I can get in MODO with no tweaking. Trying to mix the two also doesn't work very well. For instance if I sculpt in zbrush and create wrinkles for use as a normals map in MODO. Then add a leather bump that goes over the object.... well the result is not as expected. The leather doesn't show up well or the wrinkles don't. This may be my error. If it is let me know how its intended to be used.

2. As I said I generally have 1 CAD Project with multiple variations in color and pattern. My current workflow in MODO is to create a master group with all my masking and color for each part. Then I duplicate that master material group with all the groups under it in tact then just hide groups to render each product variation... In octane I can't simply select the upper group and duplicate. I have to go through each and every octane node in the shader tree and manually duplicate and move it into its respective group. That's a big one for me.

3. Mapping. I have found multiple errors. Cylinder mapping is not matching up. Nor is the UV offset features in MODO.

4. Masking, this may be my own error here but I need multiple alpha masks. So for instance I may have a plastic part that has a pattern on it that covers the whole piece. Then I have a localized mask for a decal over that other mask. And I control the color through constants in MODO and can also give them their own parameters for roughness and reflection based on my needs. I have yet to get this working properly in the plugin.

5. IOR based reflections do not give a result you would expect. Simple put reflections seem way to bright. If I set index to 1.46 for instance and spec to 1.0 I expect to get a result close to plastic. But its way way more reflective than it should be. I have compared this to both maxwell render and keyshot. The reflection seem bright. Also increasing the roughness does not seem to balance right with reflections. Again they appear very white and you lose your color if you go high on roughness.

This are the things currently preventing me from using Octane in a professional environment.

Thanks,
Seth Richardson
skype: seth.richardson2
Skullcandy

[face_off]

Hi Seth - whilst we are discussing these issues on Skype - I thought I would post responses here in case others had the same questions.

1. Normal + Bump gives a very bad result compared to what I can get in MODO with no tweaking.

1) If you have a normal map applied to a material, the bump map is ignored (this is an Octane limitation). Similarly....if you have a displacement map, you should remove the bump and normal map.

In octane I can't simply select the upper group and duplicate. I have to go through each and every octane node in the shader tree and manually duplicate and move it into its respective group. That's a big one for me.

This looks like a workflow issue that we will need to discuss. In summary - in this situation, don't use Octane Overrides- since the Shader Tree is generating many many different material combinations - so the "on-the-fly" (ie. no Octane Override) material conversion will save you a lot of time.

3. Mapping. I have found multiple errors. Cylinder mapping is not matching up. Nor is the UV offset features in MODO.

Yes, you are right, cylindrical mapping appears to be out. I will fix this. Automatic UV offsets are not supported. Instead move the texture locator. Or create an Octane Override and manually transform the projection.

4. Masking, this may be my own error here but I need multiple alpha masks. So for instance I may have a plastic part that has a pattern on it that covers the whole piece.

Can you pls send me a scene demonstrating the masking problem, and I will investigate.

5. IOR based reflections do not give a result you would expect. Simple put reflections seem way to bright. If I set index to 1.46 for instance and spec to 1.0 I expect to get a result close to plastic. But its way way more reflective than it should be. I have compared this to both maxwell render and keyshot. The reflection seem bright. Also increasing the roughness does not seem to balance right with reflections. Again they appear very white and you lose your color if you go high on roughness.

Spec at 1.0 and IOR of 1.46 is going to be very bright! I would expect plastic to have a lower spec value than 1. There are some plastics in the LiveDb you can use as a reference point.

Paul

Paul

[LFedit]

I am interested to hear about the masking too. I can get group masks to work in the modo preview render but won't work in octane. Can this be converted with the plugin?

[face_off]

I am interested to hear about the masking too. I can get group masks to work in the modo preview render but won't work in octane. Can this be converted with the plugin?

Group masks are not currently supported (but RGBA stencils are). If you send me a scene with an example of a Group mask setup you want supported, I will add it to the plugin.

Paul

[LFedit]

I don't have a specific scene right now but if I create a material, and I want to mask out with like scratches, then have the masked out material show through and be a different color. I can't get it to do that with rgba

[LFedit]

Hopefully this screen shot explains it. Pretty basic, the group mask is letting the bottom material come through. Can see octane just keeps that same diffuse, while modo is allowing the red to come through.

[face_off]

The group mask situation you describe above can be manually created as per below. Automatic creation might be able to be done, however I'm unsure how the plugin would know the background color (ie. the red in this case). I will see what can be done.

Paul

[LFedit]

Ahh.. Gotcha, just a different way to do it. I assumed there would be a way because we use it so much. You can bet that I will be saving this image. I love this plugin though, every question I have had it is not like I doubted it could be done. Just more of wondering how it is done. Thanks again. Sorry to hijack the thread..

[face_off]

Ahh.. Gotcha, just a different way to do it. I assumed there would be a way because we use it so much. You can bet that I will be saving this image. I love this plugin though, every question I have had it is not like I doubted it could be done. Just more of wondering how it is done. Thanks again. Sorry to hijack the thread..

After speaking with Seth on this yesterday, I think a much better way to do this is via a Material Mix. So plug two materials into a Material Mix, and use the group mask as the Material Mix Amount. That way you are not just controlling the Diffuse Color - not all the material attributes. I will see if this can be automated after the next release comes out.

Paul

[dancouto]

You can chain as many Mix Textures as you want, using the Group Mask image as the Amount. It works really well. I just did a product shot that uses 2 Mix Textures like this.