Some general questions

[associatedarchitects]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum, my name is Dan and I am an IT manager for a small architectural practice in Birmingham, and I am very interested in octane as a solution for our two visual Artists but have a few questions and wondered if anyone could help me? Also Sorry in advance for the long post.

Firstly we would like to demo octane but our current PC's are all iMacs with very limited graphics capabilities, even running the demo scenes seems to take about 36 minutes and it didn't complete the render cycle so I have no idea how fast it is other than showing my boss the videos I have seen posted on this site, I would like to know how well it copes with an architectural scene? Especially compared to our current setup.

Our two artists currently use V-Ray & 3D studio Max, we have a render farm of about 30 computers cobbled together from 5+ year old Dell machines that we used to use, bolstered by a few high end mac's that the guys can use out of office hours (as we find that vray spawner will max out the processors, making the slaves that are production PC's unusable to the staff sitting at them). I have asked the guys to evaluate octane as a suitable replacement for V-Ray, currently one of them is very enthusiastic and the other is threatening to quit (he's a sensitive sole that doesn't like his workflow upset, he also struggles to meet deadlines often tries to push the computing limits and resources in the office in the name of rendered perfection). So my first problem is that I can't show my boss a sample image from one of our scenes because octane runs so slow on our current computers and I can't really get the guys to trial the software as we can't use it. I also need to get this guy on side but according to him - octane is nowhere near as good as v-ray because all the pro's work he covets are not using it yet. It would be helpful to get a comparison scene rendered, or if anyone has done this already please forgive my ignorance, but a link in the right direction with a nice architectural image (vray vs octane) and published render times for each would be most welcome.

Secondly, we are about to commence a software refresh of all the iMac's in our office (as we use them in windows mode only) and will be upgrading to the 2012 Autodesk suite of software, however the machines our artists are using simply wont cut it anymore so we know we have to upgrade them anyway.

With that in mind I have specified either 2 top end mac pro's or 2 custom build machines with a rough spec of: 12 cores, 24GB of RAM, 120GB SSD, but I need to know what Graphics cards would be recommended? I was thinking something along the lines of a Quadro 4000 and a GTX 590? I was wondering if this was an ideal setup or what would be the fastest cards to get to work with octane & Max, I think the motherboard's SLI will allow 3 cards to be installed, is it worth putting more cards in? does octane use more than 2? In terms of budget we are looking at somewhere between £4-6k per machine, so there is a decent budget to play with but that said, we wont be forking out 3-4k for a top end quadro graphics card. Any suggestions would be most welcome.

My hope is that I can replace V-Ray and our aging renderfarm with the octane system that will perform just as well, if not better, and win over the skeptics, but I need the machines to be blisteringly fast and do the job. We are currently working on a project with an estimated 96 rendering hours just for one scene on v-ray and our deadlines just don't allow for that time.

Thanks for reading,

Dan.

[hmk]

Well, the action of converting to a new concept/idea/workflow....etc is one of the most popular problems man kind knows. Most people will usually fight anything that they are not used to do or against whatever they learned over years (learning is the process of gaining new positive/negative experience). That said, I understand what you are facing, however there are other kind of people, those who are open minded to anything as long as they are convinced of its benefits, those are the leaders and early adopters. If you can find in your team one of them, or even create one of them by painting a picture of HIS/HER success in their mind, then you will win their dedication to your idea. Believe it or not, most probably your guy will be the one who is threatening to quit.

Regarding Octane Render and Architecture, based on my own experience for a year in several projects, I very much recommend it. It has some missing features, and has its limitations, but this is normal, and with the right tools (check my website, it also has architecture animation samples) you can get around them and create the best and fastest renders for your project. By the way, use the direct lighting kernel for exterior scenes, much much faster.

Regarding the hardware, this is the easy part. I advice you to get an Nvidia 480 graphic card, and use it on any regular windows machine, you dont need a super processor to run Octane Render, you just need a good graphic card. So your investment in this will be much lower than any vray or other CPU renderers render machine.

Hope this answered your questions, good luck

[Refracty]

Hi,
I am using Octane a lot for architecture and interior design renderings for almost a year. I have worked with Mental Ray, VRay an Maxwell for more then 10 years and it was a bit of a risk to decide for Octane because the current job is for a 'big client' and the scene is quite complex with many materials inside and many peoply rely on my work (for post production, ect.).
It was more a feeling that made me decide for octane in early beta but it was the right decission.
I will try to bring some light to your questions.

I would like to know how well it copes with an architectural scene?

I would say Octane is very useful for architecture scenes because it has (still) some limitation for other genres.
I will start with the limitations but I want to add that Octane Render creates the most brilliant renderings I have ever seen compared with biased (VRay,...) and unbiased renderers (Maxwell,...).

Some limitations: No Instancing, No SSS, Not embedded in 3D app yet, Max Text. Limit (CUDA), GPU Ram limits scene complexity...
The good things are: Very friendly UI, Brilliant Renderings, Fast Renderings, fast developement of features, Good support and community help

So it is just a matter time that more missing features will be added. The team behind the renderer is smart.
You have to think about what kind of scene complexity (polys and textures) you are working with.
Then you should think about your Graphics Cards. I would not mix Quadro with Geforce. Quadros are fast (and expensive) for 3D Apps like Max and Maya but the GTX will give you more speed / per 'coin'. If 3GB (GTX 580) is not enough then you could consider a Tesla Card as well.

So my first problem is that I can't show my boss a sample image from one of our scenes because octane runs so slow on our current computers and I can't really get the guys to trial the software as we can't use it

First I would buy a new Graphics card (GTX 480 or 580 or 590) and check the output. Octane scales almost linear so you can calculate how many cards you need to deliver in time.
Please note that Octane usually uses an exporter that takes time to transfer each frame from 3D app to Octane.
HMK was talking about a tool (OPT) that will work as some kind of macro 'inside' of octane to render animated fly throughs and light animation with out object animation. This will make the transfer time redundant for flythroughs.

I think the motherboard's SLI will allow 3 cards to be installed, is it worth putting more cards in? does octane use more than 2?

Octane supports as many cards your OS can handle. I am using 7 GPUs at the moment. (3 GTX 590 with 2 GPUs each and a GTX 580) on one motherboard.
In your case would fill all available PCIe slots. But your choice depends on if you consider watercooling. If your cards are close to each other you probably have to watercool the system but then you are less flexible with swapping cards.
Usually, for the system I would recomment a quadcore CPU. It does not has to be the fastest on the market and a six core is not neccessary. But if you need 12 cores for other VRay render work that could be a valid reason.
There are GPU XPander Boxes that will offer more PCIe slots for a high price (compared to a motherboard upgrade).

Hope I could help.
After you purchased a license you will have more access to other parts of the forum with more information.
Cheers
Refracty

[hmk]

This will make the transfer time redundant for flythroughs.

You mean this will eliminate the redundancy of transfer time.

Octane supports as many cards your OS can handle. I am using 7 GPUs at the moment. (3 GTX 590 with 2 GPUs each and a GTX 580) on one motherboard.In your case would fill all available PCIe slots.

In my experience, its better to distribute the graphic cards on several machines. I have 2 machines with 3 cards each, 2 x 480 1.5GRam for rendering and 1 460 for display. The benefit of this is the ability to render and work on several shots at the same time. I usually render animation not stills, and this setup/workflow saved me a lot of time, in one project is was able to texture, light and render around a minute of architecture HD animation in about 5 hours. I didn't have to wait for the first shot to finish rendering to start working on the second one.

Tesla is very expensive for its benefits (more ram), a 480/580 with some optimization and divisions of the scene is the practical method in my opinion.

[associatedarchitects]

Hi all,

Thanks for your responses, it seems like sound advice. I am awaiting a director decision regarding the upgrade of these two machines (we have to do it anyway as they will be too slow to run the latest version of Max, and the other software they need) and I have since revised the specification based on your recommendations and some of the other posts on the forum. My plan is to get a couple of cards to start with for testing - then do further upgrades if the guys find it useful.

I'm unsure about the water cooling setup as I have never needed to use it in the past but it has been a long time since I actually had to build a PC, in the end they may decide to spend the extra cash and go for some high spec mac pro's for aesthetic reasons. If they go for 2 custom builds, I was considering placing the two boxes in our air conditioned server room and using PCoverIP technology such as terradici to get the desktop experience to the desks as I know they will complain if the towers are too loud so I may still have to look at watercooling as an option, I guess I will find out later. Would be interesting to know if any of you guys have had experience with PCoverIP as the last time I looked at it was a few years back with a company called Clearcube who fitted out the London stock exchange - however their solution was about 40k more expensive than just getting iMacs at the time, so iMac's it was.

Once again thanks for your advice, I realize now after further research that a lot of my questions have been answered in previous posts, so it was good of you all to take the time and repeat yourselves for the benefit of myself. I'll post back with the outcome of this little project - I'm hoping to get the one guy using it and when the other guy sees the results, hopefully he'll come around.

Cheers,

Dan.

[olek]

i hope this thread would be a good one to post my question.

I am actually learning a lot of basic stuff that for you guys are obvious so bear with me.

I am in the process of choosing components to build a new PC from scratch. I would like to build an optimal machine to run octane, to do architectural renderings and animations

I need to figure out what motherboard to choose with intel i7 to go with it.

What should I look for in the motherboard specs to give me the best compatibility and performance for either Nvidia GTX 400's or 500's ?

There are a few brands that make the GPU's. Which ones are worth recommending? And again which specs are the most important in choosing the card variant?

these are the motherboards I am looking at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128513
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128481

do you know what would be the best choice for chipset: Intel X58 vs Z68 considering GTX 460 and intel i7 combination?

there is so much stuff out there and so many variables my had is totally overloaded.
i would like to spend around $2000 on the PC excluding the case,

please, any help would be great!

[ahhhchuen]

Hi Olek,

Though 2000 is not a big sum, but I recommend you to acquire a more expensive mobo with surplus pcie x 16 slots so you can upgrade when you're capable later.

I forgot the models I went through but you can google ”dual NF200" to find top end (but not newest) mobo with 4xpcie16 (digital). With those mobo you can linearly upgrade your workstation later by just acquire more VGA cards. (regarding octane rendering only, but not gaming or CAD/CAM apps)

I myself own an ancient i680 SLI mobo and upgraded it with one GTX 580 3GB. Similar performance as other friends here who generously gave out their benchmarks. But of course I loss in volx process time and file transfer time.