Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

[JM_Koester]

Hi,

I'm looking for a renderer that fits into our pipeline and I'm testing Octane 4 right now.
We are working with Revit 2017 right now but will change to 2019 soon and I try to find some synergies with our real-time pipeline.
So far I really enjoy working with Octane, but have one problem and a few questions, someone hopefully can help with.

1. Problem - I frequently receive an error message when changing a node type, e.g. kernel from direct light to PMC. Once the error shows up I have to reload the Revit file.
The error starts showing up when the render view is opened, either manually or by the plugin after opening the viewport.
If I close the render view before I make any changes, I can prevent the error message.

When I tested the Octane 3 version, I didn't have this issue. I uninstalled the older plugin prior to installing v4 and removed old user files.

2018-12-11_131922.png (1.58 KiB) Viewed 3961 times

2018-12-11_131934.png (2.83 KiB) Viewed 3961 times

2. Grass
I have some trouble to wrap my head around how to create grass (particles) and use them in the Revit plug-in.
Creating a csv file in a DCC software with fitting plug-in, sounds a bit cumbersome. Especially because you need to export the terrain first to create the particle system.

3. Revit 2019 PBR materials
Revit 2019 introduced new PBR materials, though the Autodesk implementation is imho a bit strange and not clearly documented, I already asked them for some clarification on the Forum, but no feedback so far. If anyone knows the details, I would appreciate if it could be shared.
As I see it, they split up the "typical" PBR shader (in Octane the Universial material) into a couple of more basic shaders with some fixed values.
Are there any plans to update the auto conversion for this shaders, preferably to universal material?

4. Decals
Are there any plans to add the Revit decals?

5. Water
What is the usual way to render a body of water? Use a flat surface with a water-like transparent material and displacement for waves?

Cheers
Jan

[JM_Koester]

Would appreciate to receive some feedback.

As for the Revit 2019 Materials, I found out that they are documented here http://help.autodesk.com/view/ARENDERIN ... C3758EE3EE and not inside the actual Revit documentation.
Looks like they could be matched to Octane Universal Material.

[face_off]

Hi

What version of the DEMO version of the plugin are you running please?

Thanks

Paul

[JM_Koester]

Hi Paul,

plugin version is 4.00.0.57, according to the "activation" tab.

Cheers
Jan

[face_off]

Hi Jan

The 4.01.1.57 version of the plugin is only available for Revit 2019 in the DEMO version, but you indicated you are using Revit 2017, so can you clarify exactly which version of Revit you are using please?

Thanks

Paul

[JM_Koester]

Hi Paul,

Revit 2017 is our current productive version, but we will switch to 2019, therefore I'm currently testing with 2019 (build: 19.0.0.405) in English.
I just installed plugin version 4.01.1.57, though it doesn't make a difference regarding the error.

[face_off]

Thanks

I installed the DEMO version from the installer, started Revit, loaded a sample scene, opening the plugin, open the Octane Viewport, then changed the Kernel from Direct Lighting to PMC, but did not get an error. Are there other steps you are taking which I need to do to reproduce this error?

Also, if you have had an old version of the plugin installed previously, you could try deleting C:\Users\Paul\AppData\Roaming\OctaneRender for Revit and seeing if that resolves the issue.

2. Grass
I have some trouble to wrap my head around how to create grass (particles) and use them in the Revit plug-in.
Creating a csv file in a DCC software with fitting plug-in, sounds a bit cumbersome. Especially because you need to export the terrain first to create the particle system.

Ultimately you are going to need to place the grass instances on your ground geometry, so there is no easy solution for this. However, have a look at PhantomScatter - which is a very complete solution for doing this.

3. Revit 2019 PBR materials
Revit 2019 introduced new PBR materials, though the Autodesk implementation is imho a bit strange and not clearly documented, I already asked them for some clarification on the Forum, but no feedback so far. If anyone knows the details, I would appreciate if it could be shared.
As I see it, they split up the "typical" PBR shader (in Octane the Universial material) into a couple of more basic shaders with some fixed values.
Are there any plans to update the auto conversion for this shaders, preferably to universal material?

These are not currently supported, but on the TODO list. If you have any suggestions for conversion rules between the PBR Shader and the Universal material please let me know.

4. Decals
Are there any plans to add the Revit decals?

No - since there is no geometry to support these decals in Octane.

5. Water
What is the usual way to render a body of water? Use a flat surface with a water-like transparent material and displacement for waves?

Good question! I have used displacement maps previously, and they worked well. But you also need a good water shader material, which can be tricky. I suggest searching through these forums for a water tutorial.

Thanks

Paul

[JM_Koester]

Hi Paul,

thanks again for the answers.

I can reproduce the error by
- opening a sample file (e.g. rac_basic_sample_project)
- open 3D view "Approach"
- start plugin
- open Octane viewport
- change setting e.g. Kernel to PMC

The error doesn't show up if the 3D view used for the viewport is not open.

2. Grass
I will have a closer look at Phantom Scatter.
For objects that are not in Revit I probably have to use Blender and combine ORBX exports from both programs in the standalone renderer. Therefore I will have a look at creating scatter grass in Blender as well.

3. PBR
I don't have a clue how and which information you can receive from Revits API during the export, but for the most part it might be a pretty straight matching.
I think it is very helpful if maps/values for the basics (albedo, roughness, transmission, normal, bump, displacement, emission, IOR and BSDF model) are transfered.

Opaque material should receive metallic value of 0 and metal 1.
Glazing materials seam to be transparent with a IOR of 1.0 and with fake shadows.
Layered material is not 100% clear to me yet, maybe it doesn't translate well, a metallic "Base Highlights" on top of a diffuse color plus clear coat. "Weight" in that case acts like metallic with it's own roughness value and the diffuse part doesn't have any roughness setting. It's confusing.

4. Decals
ok, too bad. One of the few things in Revit that I actually like

5. Water
Will have a look around and to some testing.

Thanks again!
Jan

[face_off]

I can reproduce the error by
- opening a sample file (e.g. rac_basic_sample_project)
- open 3D view "Approach"
- start plugin
- open Octane viewport
- change setting e.g. Kernel to PMC

The error doesn't show up if the 3D view used for the viewport is not open.

Hi Jan. I still cannot replicate this issue. Just to confirm, have you tried deleting C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\OctaneRender for Revit?

3. PBR
I don't have a clue how and which information you can receive from Revits API during the export, but for the most part it might be a pretty straight matching.
I think it is very helpful if maps/values for the basics (albedo, roughness, transmission, normal, bump, displacement, emission, IOR and BSDF model) are transfered.

Opaque material should receive metallic value of 0 and metal 1.
Glazing materials seam to be transparent with a IOR of 1.0 and with fake shadows.
Layered material is not 100% clear to me yet, maybe it doesn't translate well, a metallic "Base Highlights" on top of a diffuse color plus clear coat. "Weight" in that case acts like metallic with it's own roughness value and the diffuse part doesn't have any roughness setting. It's confusing.

I will take a look at this for the next release.

Thanks

Paul

[JM_Koester]

Hi Jan. I still cannot replicate this issue. Just to confirm, have you tried deleting C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\OctaneRender for Revit?

Hi Paul, I did deleted the folder after error showed up initially and tried it again now, but it didn't change anything unfortunately.
Are there any logfiles that might be helpful? Did you see this error before or is that my individual issue?

I will take a look at this for the next release.

Thanks

Paul

Awesome! Thank you.