Jagged edges and Noise Treshold

[justix]

Hi, I hate to rise such an issue again but I'm getting curious on why my image can't get cleaner despite a good 16000 samples throw in + I'm noticing some jagged edges on one of my model but a render close up does not show such issue( the model is fine on every other render made with it )

1) Image A 8000 noise map is what I get cleaned up although it looks to me there is still noise around, maybe I'm not optimizing the material that I'm using for the wall or I can't say..

Render

Noise Map at 8000 samples Noise treshold 0.03 Group 2x2 Expected Exposure 16

Settings

in Figure C I lowered the exposre testing it with a region render BUT as soon as I use an exposre equal to 1 it start detecting noise BUT no differences really.. but If I lower the treshold to 0.02 keeping the exposre as my camera setting it just does not pick up any noise left..or so after like 10 min of region and that it seems to me a lot. see the region opened and no noise is detected but the area in the render looks like it still need it..

Expected exposure lowered to 1 and region opened with treshold 0.02

This is a map of a 5000 samples, no far noise detected from the 8000 ( almost double ) one

Final a 16000 samples shot were it looks just slightly clearer but the noise map was not better than the 8000 ( sorry I added up few objects ) ALSO I notice some jagged edges on the bathtube not visible on a close up (??) what that could be?

This is a 16000 sample and the result is slightly better but the wall underneath the window and the door one still look noisy? and the jagged edges ??????

Close up

Thank you

[paride4331]

Hi justix,
Difficult to say without having the scene.
I can say some rules maybe that'll do the tricks.
Reduce Specular in materials when it is possible (walls, for example) and avoid using Roughness 0.
Do not use specular material for windows, (you could hide the glasses), but if you need glass, use a glossy material, edit IOR and falloff skew factor in falloff map into opacity.
Leaves openings behind the camera.
Normal maps and even displacement can generate noise, be careful about quality and if you could replace it with bump map.
Do not add color correction, projection, and tranform node in hdr map using Texture Environment.
Regards
Paride

[justix]

Hi justix,
Difficult to say without having the scene.
I can say some rules maybe that'll do the tricks.
Reduce Specular in materials when it is possible (walls, for example) and avoid using Roughness 0.
Do not use specular material for windows, (you could hide the glasses), but if you need glass, use a glossy material, edit IOR and falloff skew factor in falloff map into opacity.
Leaves openings behind the camera.
Normal maps and even displacement can generate noise, be careful about quality and if you could replace it with bump map.
Do not add color correction, projection, and tranform node in hdr map using Texture Environment.
Regards
Paride

Thanks paride, well. glass.. it's always nice to get some realistic reflections on the glass when visibles and the trick to hide the glass was used only on DL-AO mode I remember when Sunlight could not pass through the glass, but only operating in PT mode now

Mostly I see is the wall and I should replace the wall with a slighlty more glossy one instead..I let you know

yes the openings behind the camera is the perfect match to obtain a fast render and clearer although is a dirty trick.. obviously there are sevral issues to avoid such as reflections from the openings ( usually the HDRI light if that is used like in this case )

The image looks enough cleared obviously now.. just trying to avoid such procedure because I would love to keep the room as is BUT simple Studio Scene for Industrial set or minimal is working fine

I should check for ray epsilon maybe? for the jagged lines on the bath edge

[paride4331]

Hi justix,
Not all the tricks you have to use, some are extreme like the glasses, they should be chosen according to the shot.
For example all windows that are not in the camera field may not have glass, distant ones need to have a glossy and those in the foreground have a specular.
Holes behind the camera, need to be without allowing direct light to enter the scene, by changing the room feeling.
I agree with you, would like to have a "real" room and not a set, but no professional picture (magazines) is made only shoting.
Always use softbox, reflective panels, black panels to create reflections on metals, etc. to help the light go and increase wherever it is needed.
Light also means telling, creating reading plans, arranging gestalt in your photo (or render).
Thinking that "real" in rendering, without changing reality, as in the picture, is false, because false is the picture that we believe is true.
About the rayepsilon, you might try, but check it, may depend on the scale unit also. It could depend on by front light that makes flatten the objects.
If you have holes behind the camera, always keep them at the window height, to give natural light to the light and as mentioned above, avoid direct light; rays must "go out" not "enter"..
Something weird looks like the bathtub, it looks like a lowpoly, most probably needs an unwrup; reflection does not seem to follow the tub shape but geometry.
I would also add micro scratches, there is no perfect shiny and reflective metal.
Regards
Paride

[justix]

Hi justix,
Not all the tricks you have to use, some are extreme like the glasses, they should be chosen according to the shot.
For example all windows that are not in the camera field may not have glass, distant ones need to have a glossy and those in the foreground have a specular.
Holes behind the camera, need to be without allowing direct light to enter the scene, by changing the room feeling.
I agree with you, would like to have a "real" room and not a set, but no professional picture (magazines) is made only shoting.
Always use softbox, reflective panels, black panels to create reflections on metals, etc. to help the light go and increase wherever it is needed.
Light also means telling, creating reading plans, arranging gestalt in your photo (or render).
Thinking that "real" in rendering, without changing reality, as in the picture, is false, because false is the picture that we believe is true.
About the rayepsilon, you might try, but check it, may depend on the scale unit also. It could depend on by front light that makes flatten the objects.
If you have holes behind the camera, always keep them at the window height, to give natural light to the light and as mentioned above, avoid direct light; rays must "go out" not "enter"..
Something weird looks like the bathtub, it looks like a lowpoly, most probably needs an unwrup; reflection does not seem to follow the tub shape but geometry.
I would also add micro scratches, there is no perfect shiny and reflective metal.
Regards
Paride

Thanks, Actually I always pay attention to details although this is still a WIP but sadly the customer does not agree on the scratch side of it ..so I must compromise, more the inge and bumpness, there will be no real close up anyway..

It depends on the secene as you know theyr are all different and the room feeling is a priority, the bathtube is a Step file so very high poly but sadly the unwrap bit is not a friend of mine, I MUST master that side of the handling with 3DMAX especially mapping a bent tube although No machinery ever brushed on a finished product such as tube tap, it's bent after the finish is applied to it.

Anyway something Is not clear to me and I may miss for stupidity, what do you mean not allowing light to enter .. would a portal with inverted normal do? ( I'm creating )

[paride4331]

Hi Justix,
If light comes in this is good, but I talk about light coming out because with adaptive sampling, it might be preferable to increase samples and reduce ray baunces,
reducing calculation and noise.
By adjusting the noise threshold, gains more. Even 0.05 may be good.
Regards
Paride