REQUEST:New Hair shader and full compatibility with Ornatrix

[Elvissuperstar007]

Hello, dear OTOY team you made a very cool product and I happy to use it. My friend work with Vray and he tested Octane with his girl hair render =)

andrew-krivulya-hair-render-with-copyright.jpg

He like all your features and speed, but we see not 100% compatibility with Ornatrix like as Vray with it VrayOrnatrixMod.

So this is screen from 3dmax and it viewport with VRay.

ff8b8-clip-349kb.png

As you can see we have 1% View Count Render - 43 493 polys and 67 909 verts and Vray Ornatrix Mod which can render full 300 000 hair strands with this result.

c9dcb-clip-960kb.jpg

This is our first request - some modifier like as VrayOrnatrixMod which help optimize Ornatrix Viewport view and speedup render.

Because just now in Octane Viewport we see this... 91 018 polys and 4 820 409 verts

d0c11-clip-239kb.png

Because if we set 1-2% - we can't see full hair... and Octane can't render without viewcount 100% full hair in viewport. So we need some modifier like as VrayOrnatrixMod, then we can render full 100% hair with viewport count - 1-2%.

Because VrayScene use - 3 GB RAM and Octane Scene use - 8 GB RAM

2) Our second request - Can you make OctaneHairMtl like as in Vray - VrayHairMtl with same settings + presets? =)

256a8-clip-183kb.png

And please add full compatibility with Ox Hair map.

04ec9-clip-21kb.png

This is OrnatrixHairMap with cool settings which help creating more realistic hair root and tip color variation.

As you can see, Vray HairMtl make better result with cool anisotropic specular effect on hair. It is more realistic than Octane render result:

aad70-clip-618kb.jpg

And my friend not understand how can he make this cool result in Octane with shaders which we have now. In Octane he use Mix Material with this settings.

mix_settings.jpg

So, We will hope that you will add full compatibility with Ornatrix Plugin, OctanHairMtl and compatibility with OxHairTexture.

Here is two scenes - Vray and Octane to help you understand our request.

Vray + Octane scene archive

Best regards, Elvis.

[Elvissuperstar007]

Iray Hair
Anisotropic BSDF

[Elvissuperstar007]

Vray hair mtl anisotropy.

553f8-clip-76kb.jpg

So we need anisotropy option to have good result in Octane.

Just now I find some nice method with this normal map =)

anisotropy.jpg

I have this result.

9c541-clip-275kb.jpg

If I use this normal map:

mUL7STh.jpg

I have this result =)

cf553-clip-276kb.jpg

So, as you can see we need some anisotropy modifications, but this normals can't help 100%. In Vray and Iray we see other anisotropy...

[Jolbertoquini]

+1000 Yes we need this type of shaders for Hair will be so helpful I think is essential is true is hard to work with hair without using a huge memory same for with Maya plug I manage to have good results but still hard.

[oguzbir]

Hi Elvissuperstar007,

Nice and neatly done feature request.
I've been using hair renderers starting with shag:hair, hairtrix and ornatrix for nearly 12 years. On and off.

Please do mark my words on this.
Octane Renderer will never be able to pull out a decent, good looking, smoothed out hair render. with

Otoy does not tend to focus on hair phenomenon never did. Just made to move to support best they can. But that's simply it.

I admit that hair rendering is a real hard task. Making the software must be f#ing hard work to do.
So that is the main reason for it. And if you look at the user base. Only a handful of people would like to do hair render in octane.

Otoy would not have the resources to allocate at most one perfectly equipped developer with hair rendering developing knowledge.
And that only for max.. That is not going to work.

The second reason is the Otoy's improvement approach on things.
The renderer is constantly updating with X speed, in the areas of render kernels, network rendering, lua scripting, massive plugin varieties. No room for workflow and artistic improvements.

The third reason is that in order rendering a good looking hair. Hair has to be rendered without noise.
Octane has never been a noise free renderer.

I suggest you look for ways to do the render in octane and put the hair in post by rendering with other renderers.
In a professional world you would not take this approach. And adapt to the renderer where it renders perfect hairs.
Vray has evolved so much in hair rendering. I think you should stick to it. If you plan on rendering hair professionally.

I wrote this not to get across with otoy. But to give you an advice if you accept it.
Cheers,

[Elvissuperstar007]

Hi Elvissuperstar007,

Nice and neatly done feature request.
I've been using hair renderers starting with shag:hair, hairtrix and ornatrix for nearly 12 years. On and off.

Please do mark my words on this.
Octane Renderer will never be able to pull out a decent, good looking, smoothed out hair render. with

Otoy does not tend to focus on hair phenomenon never did. Just made to move to support best they can. But that's simply it.

I admit that hair rendering is a real hard task. Making the software must be f#ing hard work to do.
So that is the main reason for it. And if you look at the user base. Only a handful of people would like to do hair render in octane.

Otoy would not have the resources to allocate at most one perfectly equipped developer with hair rendering developing knowledge.
And that only for max.. That is not going to work.

The second reason is the Otoy's improvement approach on things.
The renderer is constantly updating with X speed, in the areas of render kernels, network rendering, lua scripting, massive plugin varieties. No room for workflow and artistic improvements.

The third reason is that in order rendering a good looking hair. Hair has to be rendered without noise.
Octane has never been a noise free renderer.

I suggest you look for ways to do the render in octane and put the hair in post by rendering with other renderers.
In a professional world you would not take this approach. And adapt to the renderer where it renders perfect hairs.
Vray has evolved so much in hair rendering. I think you should stick to it. If you plan on rendering hair professionally.

I wrote this not to get across with otoy. But to give you an advice if you accept it.
Cheers,

Our experiments with hair (Octane)

I added finished material online , organic section , skin, hair

[oguzbir]

Great experiment renders. Well done.

Mind you. I as well am an Ornatrix licenced user. And I do hell a lot of professional work with hairs. But Sadly not with octane.
I'm under strict NDA and cannot share those projects for at least a year..

The reason I can't use it professionally is it's unrealistic to use it because it takes too long to have a less-noisy image.

I mostly render HighRes images at 10.000 - 20.000px. in height.

I would like to learn about how long your renders take especially with the last image you sent. and it still has noisy areas in the shallow parts of the hair.
If I need to render the main object in octane I do that and render just the hair portion (region) Vray.
The funny thing is I can get hair the render finish x10 or more times less then the octane.
And even the machine setup is nearly same 1 license vray my main computer + 1 mac mini as renderslave.
in octane I have two titans. I tested one of my hair scenes with 6 GPU's and it wall still too slow compared to vray.
And noisy, too. At some point octane never renders those messed up areas noise free.

I wish you all the best with the hair renders. I know it's a real pain to get a perfect hair.
Your renders do look good.
But not for me. And not for highres usage..
cheers,

[Elvissuperstar007]

Hello, dear OTOY Team. I think this LINK can help you create amazing hair realistic shader.

And as you can see =) Not only I have problem with rendering hair speed in Octane. Those image, as you can see in my last post rendered on GTX 760 about - 10 hours in 4k. But in Vray this image rendered about 3 hours. Please, fix full compatibility with Ornatrix.

Best regards, Elvis.

[Elvissuperstar007]

Great experiment renders. Well done.

Mind you. I as well am an Ornatrix licenced user. And I do hell a lot of professional work with hairs. But Sadly not with octane.
I'm under strict NDA and cannot share those projects for at least a year..

The reason I can't use it professionally is it's unrealistic to use it because it takes too long to have a less-noisy image.

I mostly render HighRes images at 10.000 - 20.000px. in height.

I would like to learn about how long your renders take especially with the last image you sent. and it still has noisy areas in the shallow parts of the hair.
If I need to render the main object in octane I do that and render just the hair portion (region) Vray.
The funny thing is I can get hair the render finish x10 or more times less then the octane.
And even the machine setup is nearly same 1 license vray my main computer + 1 mac mini as renderslave.
in octane I have two titans. I tested one of my hair scenes with 6 GPU's and it wall still too slow compared to vray.
And noisy, too. At some point octane never renders those messed up areas noise free.

I wish you all the best with the hair renders. I know it's a real pain to get a perfect hair.
Your renders do look good.
But not for me. And not for highres usage..
cheers,

This image rendered on GTX 760 in 4k about 10 hours =) In Vray - 3 hours =) Of course just now Vray is better for hair rendering =) But I think Otoy can do this work and we have cool hair render in Octane for small time =)

[abstrax]

Thanks for your comprehensive feedback. I will put your request on our to-do stack and we will see what we can do, when we get to revisit hair.