Which pc/workstation for Octane?

[Joe Piler]

Yep, what q question...

I have been an Appel user for 9 years, never had any problems....

But updating to an new Mac Pro is very expensive... and they're new.
Updating to a new Imac, hm, no upgrades available.

Never thought I would ever consider changing to a pc...
But it solves almost all of my problems...

I will use Revit in the near future.
Currently use Cinema4D and Vray as 3D software and would like to use Octane for architectural renders
My workflow depend on making quick 3D render previews to make design decisions.
And I would like to work with 2 big monitors, at least 2x27".

Any ideas on what configuration to choose?
Pc or workstation? Which windows version?
Which video card(s)?
Dell, BOXX, HP workstation?

Thanks in advance...!

[glimpse]

do You consider building a rig Yourself? that way You could tailor a solution for what's most importand for You in a workflow You preffer. If You need any help - drop a line. The key here is how much You'd like to spend - that will narrow available options.

[Joe Piler]

Building it myself is possible...
Although I'm not a computer builder but an architect...

I would like to use a combination between CPU and GPU performance.
Fast feedback on my screens to make design decisions.
64GB RAM, 6-CORE chip for CPU renders, latest chips... 2x 240GB SSD, 2 graphic cards (not sure which, but will start with 1).

Red some great articles with workstations featuring a safely overclocked, third generation Intel® Core™ i7 processor (six cores, twelve threads) running at 4.5GHz.
Great for 2D/3D drawing. And for rendering a combination between 4 slots GPU graphic cards and 6 core CPU rendering.
8 or 12 core... Not sure about that, very expensive and I don't render fulltime...

[haknslash]

+1 on building it yourself, or have a friend or local computer shop build it for you. You will save a ton of money and you will end up with a better machine suited exactly for your needs.

I have a Boxx 4920 Xtreme machine and it uses NVidia Quadro workstation and Tesla cards. While it's well suited for workstation-specific needs with CAD, analysis and simulations, it is slow at GPU rendering obviously! Really slow compared to the gaming and GeForce cards specifically. So as much as I love my Boxx machine I will say to move away from these companies if you're just going to focus on GPU unbiased rendering. Those machines will cost you several thousands, some even in the tens of thousands, for what would be a slug in Octane, iray, etc or other GPU unbiased render engines. I have mine with 64 GB memory and running a six-core 3960X @ 4.5 GHz and it's not going to be faster at rendering than a GeForce card or even some Quadro+Tesla combos. Been there done that with several tests using CPU, GPU and Hybrid modes in Bunkspeed to validate where my bottlenecks where. 99% of the time I render in GPU because it's faster. You could throw 20k at one of those builds and it could easily get demolished by a $1000 build using the right cards for the right software/technology. It's all in what your needs are...

I would decide on what your needs are, what your budget is and what skill levl you have. If you can do it, by all means build it yourself. It's not hard and you'll end up with a machine with all the components you want within your budget. GPU rendering is where the future is in terms of fast rendering. I would forget all that six or eight core processor stuff unless you have the demand for such computing power. Doing just architectural design I don't really see how you could but maybe you are doing some complex simuations and builds where the processor warrants such a demand.

[Joe Piler]

I have a Boxx 4920 Xtreme machine and it uses NVidia Quadro workstation and Tesla cards. While it's well suited for workstation-specific needs with CAD, analysis and simulations, it is slow at GPU unbiased rendering! Really slow compared to the gaming and GeForce cards specifically. So as much as I love my Boxx machine I will say to move away from these companies if you're just going to focus on GPU unbiased rendering. Those machines will cost you several thousands, some even in the tens of thousands, for what would be a slug in Octane, iray, etc or other GPU unbiased render engines. I have mine with 64 GB memory and running a six-core 3960X @ 4.5 GHz and it's not going to be faster at rendering than a GeForce card or even some Quadro+Tesla combos. Been there done that with several tests. 99% of the time I render in GPU because it's faster.

Thank you for your response! This is the BOXX I was looking at...
Problem is that I can't figure out which CUDA graphics cards works best...

My budget is between 3.000-4.000 dollars, not including monitors or external hardware.
Maybe more, depends if it gets really faster....

I don't want to change in 3 years to a new machine after purchasing.

[haknslash]

First off what programs do you use in your daily workflow? And of those programs have you checked to see what the performance differences there are with using Quadro/workstation cards vs using GeForce/gaming cards are? Unless you have programs where the performance is much better with the optimized drivers in workstation cards then again I'd suggest a GeForce route.

If your budget is 3-4k then a 4920 Xtreme is going to put you over budget, especially when you said you need the other periphs and monitors.

If you look at my thread I created yesterday http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=38448 you'll see my new render rig build. I bought all of that for less than $4700 IIRC and it will absolutely crush my much more expensive Boxx rig in the GPU rendering aspect. For other tasks my Boxx might excell much more but just depends on the programs and how they performance based off the drivers and cards. That's why I have two rigs as I've tried for years to find the right single rig combo but I found out there really isn't such a thing. This is why there needs to be a "gray area" for graphics cards technology and not so much a black and white workstation or consumer gaming card route but that's for another thread entirely

[Joe Piler]

I was told the i7 is much faster in single core tasks like modeling an drawing in Vectorworks and Revit.
That's what I do a lot.

I want to change my workflow and do more 3D architectural renders.

If I choose a 3DBOXX 4920 Extreme GPU I have a fast (not the fastest) i7 6-core chip and the possibility to use 4 graphic CUDA cards.

I was told the Nvidia K4000 is great for your modeling on screen, but I need a Titan Black (or 780ti) for fast previews with GPU rendering.

At this moment I don't use Octane but Vray for Cinema4D.
This Vray version is still not Vray RT ready, so no fast previews based on the GPU, but it's coming... Not sure when...

If I choose the best of both worlds I would get a fast over clocked i7 6-core processor for 2D/3D single core software for drawing, my main business.
And the possibility to use fast graphic cards in the nearby future as soon as Vray is ready, or maybe I'll switch to Octane.

I looked at 3DBOXX: expensive but with the right combination between CPU/GPU it seems like a monster to me, and I like that!

Also looked at DELL Precision T7610 workstation, only dual XEON core, maybe dual 4/6 core, don't need much more.
But I don't know if a dual XEON 4-core 3,5gHz is fast enough for 2D/3D drawing... I never tested this...
Less expensive than 3DBOXX...

Also looked at the HP Z820 workstation, same story as Dell, only dual XEON processors.
Almost same price as 3DBOXX, but I'm comparing i7 to dual XEONS... still never tested the difference in single core software...

And lust but not least I did some big searching on building a rig myself...
That is pretty scary....

I'm a professional architect and very busy the last years.
I just need a computer that works all the time, and if there's a problem I want to call 1 number and get good service.
I don't see that happening when building it myself...

Long story... Sorry about that!
But it's a big investment for me and want to make the right decision.

Thanks in advance for your story and help!

[glimpse]

Hey, Joe.

Don't get scared building Your own rig. It's not so hard. A lot of us came from architecture/design/art backgrounds & get some knowledge 'bout pc's simply because we need good value & knowing that even if something messed up, we can fastly change a part or so without to much of worying.

BOXX are good - You pay extra, & get soemone on the line if something happens. However even with Your own build it's almsot the same - You can get anyone - even a geeky friend to help You out. technically these BOXX (or other boutique builds) are nothing special, they just use good parts that fit & that's all.

If You will be lookin' to path of trying to fit a rig on Your own steps to folow migh be:

* choose a CPU (let's say Core i7-4930K ) k means OverClock'able [~500$]
* find a compatible mobo in this case Socket 2011 (what I see ASUS & Gigabyte is common picks) [200-400$]
* choose amount of RAM [64GB will set You back about 500-600$]
* If You're lookin' for OC, don't go too far, 'cos You'll end up messing with stability & get diminishing returns. However let's say before mentioned piece should be completelly fine with 4+Ghz, just choose good cooling. I'd recomend AIO route - here's a good article to compare what's on the market [100-150$]
* Depending on You mobo & cooling solution, start looking for a case. Personally I love Fractal Design, but there are a lot of other good case that will fit Your taste & needs. Just keep in mind that You need it to be compatible with chosen cooler (mounting space) & providing enough airflow if You go for multiple cards one day. [100-300$]
* last but not least - PSU. depending on what cards You have or how much possible expansions slots - choose it wisely, so You don't have to change it if You want to add extra card later [price ?]
* as for GPU I'd go for TitanBlack & then look..You can always try - if it's too limited You can take it back and get PRO (quadro) card however for GPU renderers like Octane Titan is a best deal in terms of speed and available memory.
* for SSD's my personal preference would be SAMSUNG or Sandisk as they do manufacture those not only rebrand & resell.. [again, depends on Your chosen product..]

With this route You'd end up having OCed 6core in with Silent Cooling for stable working in a neat case with best GPU for rendering, few extra slots for upgrade if needed. If You start cuting corners You'll sacrifice something : performance or reliability. So choose parts acording to Your needs.

As for asembling the rig itself - it's quite fun & it will take and evening at most, even if You haven't ever done that - just follow instructions (mounting procesor, ram onboard, putting it in the case, adding cooler, GPU, PSU, conecting drives, pluging some wires & You're ready to go =) choose an operating system - isntalation doesn't take to long usualy. (You migh have to flash bios to for that You'll probably need usb key) download some letest drivers as in the box will probably be out-dated. & You can start instaling software =)..

[Joe Piler]

Hey Glimpse,

Just got back from a computer shop in my town.
I just want to say that they build me a pc for 4000 euro's (same as 4000 dollars when exporting to the Netherlands)...

These are the specs:
Fractal Design Define XL R2 white case
Intel Asus Rampage IV Extreme motherboard
Intel Core i7 6-core 4930K 3,4gHz
Corsair Hydro H100i CPU Cooler
Corsair Vengeance Pro 2x 2x8GB DDR3 1866 C9R Memory
Samsung SSD 840 PRO 256 GB for Windows and software
Samsung SSD 840 EVO for files
Geforce GTX Titan Black 1x
Dell Ultrasharp 27" U2713HM Monitor
Sharkoon Media reader
LG DVD RW etc

I think this will outperform a 3DBOXX 4920 Extreme GPU, not only by price but by performance as well...

Only thing is that VrayforC4D still isn't available...
So some extra cores would be nice.

That's the only reason why I should choose a XEON setup, maybe even a dual setup.

But like I said, I don't render the entire day, I think this is a great setup.

What do you think?

[haknslash]

You would be happier with 2 GTX 780's than a single Titan since you could get two for near the price of a single Titan. I'd recommend a Titan if your scenes require the added VRAM, otherwise for GPU rendering there are cheaper cards that will render faster.