Physically inacurrate light distribution in Octane

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SSmolak
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Yes this works fine like simple scenes but unfortunately not for more complex areas. Of course it can be done in post - but why ? The question is why Octane has issues in this area but other renderer not ? I thinking about mixing AO with beauty pass in AOV masking with walls but this is still workaround. This should be really make thinking for devs - especially these badly dark areas which I sent.

Octane has Diffuse level but more that 6 do nothing, the same for GI - more than 100 do nothing too. But max level is set to insane values - strange...

There is no problem if direct light like Sunlight is bounced somewhere to the problematic polygons, but if we have only indirect light - the problems are coming.

Look on this lightness degradation from left to right where column on the same position is bright, after on the right there is still dark - only on polygons towards ground. Ground is pure bright but Octane indirect light can't transfer as much energy to up.
O_deg.jpg
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SSmolak
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elsksa wrote:Do you have any of the aforementioned renderer comparison images at your disposal?
I will share such scene with comparison to Corona soon.

Meanwhile, thanks to great Octane AOV, mixing by 20-35% Ambient Occlusion with beauty pass in screen mode and masking it by material mask, channel map range to get only dark areas and white balance adjusting because Occlusion is white can do great job for resolve my problem. I'm very happy with this solution. AOV is very powerful. This is still workaround but very good configurable.
AO_AOV.zip
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It works great with irradiance channel too
irradiance.zip
(316.78 KiB) Downloaded 77 times
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SSmolak
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Corona :
Corona.png
Octane :
Octane.png
As you see they are totally different in dark areas. Even Octane is darker at all using the same sky color !

Ha ! It looks that Octane needs 2.2 gamma ( sRGB response ) to looks the same as Corona :
Octane_2_2.png
Probably VRay use the same gamma as Corona. That's very interesting, why Octane use like double gamma linearity compared to other and it looks overall darker by default and needs more color saturation to compensate this.
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SSmolak
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But when we compare direct light distribution we have proof how different these engines works. Increasing gamma in Octane washed too much of whole scene and HDR map that looks different :
Oct2.2.png
Default 1.0 Octane gamma makes it way to dark compared to Corona :
Oct1.0.png
So as you see Octane light distribution using the same HDR is much less powerful than in Corona.

Also look how different and lack of light is in this place in Octane :
oct_light.png
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SSmolak
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Thank you, your technical knowledge is very helpful for understanding how things works in renderers but unfortunately this not help for creating the same image look that offer another renderer because developers using the same technical data implemented them little different.

After another day of investigation and testing, finally I found what is going on !

I know now, why people interested in creating good looking exterior images choose Corona or Vray. Not because Octane is worse. Because these renderers oriented for exteriors have great built-in calibrated settings where you can create simple materials, using built-in light system, pressing render and excellent, great pleasure for eye image is done. In Octane to achieve the same you must tweaking. People are lazy in nature.

From left to right - Octane, Corona. This time without cheating with gamma or ambient occlusion. The same camera exposure.

HDR Lighting :
Octane_Corone_Hosek.png
Hosek & Wilkie lighting :
Octane_Corona_HDR.png
You can get color picker, I prefer MS PowerToys which has on-screen HSV picker https://github.com/microsoft/PowerToys/ ... ag/v0.76.2 and you can see that every the same part of images have the same color, saturation and brightness level with error max 5%.

They looks EXACTLY the same. So where is problem ? Why 80% of the architectural visualization market use Corona, VRay not Octane ? Because Octane has badly implemented material brightness calibration and bad default values for SkyLight !

1. Main problem in Octane are materials. They are strange compared to Corona because Octane color brightness on 80% are the same that Corona use on 50%. When you want more photons to be pushed out and lighting darker areas you must use 15-35% more material brightness for that here. The same situation is for color saturation. Octane needs 5-15% more saturated color for create the same color expansion from one material to another. Especially visible in interiors.

Material brightness in Corona from 50% to 100% are the same in Octane using 85-100% values. Something wrong is with calibration here. We have much more possibility to set slider within material darkness than in its brightness.

2. Octane Hosek @ Wilkie looks little different in Corona. The most important thing is that Octane Sun Power is way too strong by default. It create too dark shadow areas in relation to Sky power. To make it the same as in Corona it should be set to 0.4 if Sky Power is set to 1. After that we have more brightness in shadow areas with not too much dark shadow.

This solution works fine for simple colored materials but not for textured ones. Every color texture needs to have much more power to achieve the same bright expansion in GI by using additional color correction node or by power in image node - still needs to tweak.

I will share these scenes for both Octane and Corona so you can play with it within day or two.
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To be clear - my intention was to report that Corona can produce great looking images using default settings. It produce quality which is standard in industry. In Octane to achieve the same you must tweak default settings and texture power within materials.

As I know many people think that this is related to limitation in render engine - not settings. I proofed that they are wrong but that doesn't mean everything is fine because for many people finding what is needed to tweak to achieve intended result can be too much to stay with Octane.
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elsksa wrote: Such substantial change wouldn't be sensical without statistics and user-base polls to back it up.
2022 Architectural Visualization Rendering Engine Survey Results : https://www.cgarchitect.com/features/ar ... ey-results

Octane can produce the same or even better quality than Corona or VRay but most of the people doesn't know about or they didn't get good result by using default settings.
Or maybe they scare about VRam limitation, Nvidia card cost relation to CPU - I don't know but 2,45% market usage is hmmm bad.

Interesting is that default Max Scanline has more usage than Octane. It is very bad renderer. Even Redshift has more. Twinmotion, Lumion ? What the hell . I think that people use renderers because other use and they are more popular.
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SSmolak
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elsksa wrote:My short 2 cents.
Thank you for explanation. Your knowledge is always welcome.

My last two cents : Octane can produce insane images and without issues that I described before but it needs much more tricks to achieve the same. Mainly because of different materials treatment. Problem is not lighting, engine but materials.
oct.png
oct2.png
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