Diffuse SSS?

Maxon Cinema 4D (Export script developed by abstrax, Integrated Plugin developed by aoktar)

Moderators: ChrisHekman, aoktar

Post Reply
zga042
Licensed Customer
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:19 pm
Contact:

In this article by Joey (Raw & Rendered), he mentions using a Diffuse material with SSS in Step 08
We chose to use a material with subsurface scattering because it can add a sense of life to objects. First, create a new Octane Diffuse material, and choose a base colour in the Diffuse tab. Next go to the Transmission tab, and add an Octane RGBSpectrum texture to the Texture channel. Choose the colour you would like to transmit once light goes through the particle. Finally, in the Medium tab, add a Scattering Medium texture to the texture channel. This will give you absorption and scattering textures. Most times, you can leave Absorption at 0 and Scattering at 0.5. The scale slider is what controls how easily light can be absorbed and transmitted through the object – or in this case, the particles. We’ve used 1.75.
I tried doing what he said and, for me, diffuse materials don't change when I use transmission and medium settings. Is he using a different version of Octane, perhaps?

Now, it's my understanding that SSS is normally done with the medium tab of specular materials, sometimes as part of a mix material. But mixed specular/diffuse materials don't look as smooth for me as they do in Joey's example. At small scales (where the SSS has the most effect) they are grainy. At larger scales, the SSS is imperceptible. The scale/density slider seems very all-or-nothing at both scales, and the sliders for phase and for float texture don't do much at all.

Joey also fails to mention what textures go in which slots. I've seen Float Texture in Absorption, blank Scattering, and RGB Spectrum in Emission. This seems only to darken the center. I've also seen RGB Spectrum in Absorption, Float in Scattering, and blank Emission. This has a similar effect. (See attached. Transmission's effect seems simple, so I've ignored it in both.) What's going on here?

Some questions:
  • Are specular materials the only or best way to do SSS?
  • At what scale do SSS effects occur? (is it more like .001 cm or 100cm?)
  • What is the best way to get that translucent, plastic-y look without grain or glassy shine?
Attachments
SSS_absoprtion+emission.jpg
SSS - absorption + scattering.jpg
bododge
Licensed Customer
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:20 pm

I've struggled with that too.
User avatar
brasco
Licensed Customer
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Are specular materials the only or best way to do SSS?
Hi,

You can use the Medium shaders in the Octane Diffuse Material as well as the Specular material but not in the Glossy.
Then you can use a Mix Material that uses a Falloff Node to blend between the Glossy and the Diffuse material with the Scattering Medium.
Use multiple Mix mats to provide Coat materials.

Make sure your Transmission is up on the Diffuse material to allow the rays through (and therefore able to be absorbed/scattered)

Image

That gives the below render - you can, of course, tweak it a lot and include bumps / roughness maps etc just as you would in a single Glossy material.

Image
Image

A second option is to just fake SSS using shaders / colours in the Transmission channel, this is not true SSS but might be good enough for certain scenarios (like one poly thin objects such as grass or paper).

At what scale do SSS effects occur? (is it more like .001 cm or 100cm?)
It's fairly arbitrary, so you can just use the Density slider (this used to be called Scale before 3.xx) to increase or decrease the effective scale.
It is a good idea to model to scale in general anyway, Octane uses Meters but I think the C4D plugin automatically converts things.
Other things that affect the Scattering is Diffuse Depth, you need to have enough bounces for it to display and the more you have the more accurate it can become.

What is the best way to get that translucent, plastic-y look without grain or glassy shine?
See my answer to your first question. Regarding noise, Scattering is very computationally heavy so it may just be the nature of the beast or it may just be an un-optimised scene - try to reduce the GI clamp right up until you see a visible drop in brightness then leave it a bit above that. Also try and avoid insanely bright lights.


cheers
brasc
Last edited by brasco on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
Rig#1 Win 10 x64 | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | i7 7900K 4.7GHz | 64GB
Rig#2 Win 10 x64 | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | i7 3930K 4.4GHz | 32GB
Rig#3 Win 10 x64 | GTX 1070| GTX 1070| GTX 1070| i7 2600K 4.8GHz | 32GB
User avatar
brasco
Licensed Customer
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:56 pm

I should also note about that setup - I'm using Transmission to colour the SSS because the Scattering and Absorption nodes don't accept the Random Color node.
For just single color materials, you can just use RGB or other color inputs (Gaussian Spectrum / Noises / Gradients etc) to have true Wavelength Scattering.

cheers
brasc
Rig#1 Win 10 x64 | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | i7 7900K 4.7GHz | 64GB
Rig#2 Win 10 x64 | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | GTX 1080Ti | i7 3930K 4.4GHz | 32GB
Rig#3 Win 10 x64 | GTX 1070| GTX 1070| GTX 1070| i7 2600K 4.8GHz | 32GB
zga042
Licensed Customer
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:19 pm
Contact:

Fantastic answer. Thanks, brasco
zga042
Licensed Customer
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:19 pm
Contact:

It appears that diffuse materials can only use the transmission (and therefore medium node) in a Pathtracing or PMC kernel. Doesn't work at all in directlighting. Unsure if this is intended; only solution seems to be learning more about those kernels.
andregodinho
Licensed Customer
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:30 pm

brasco wrote:I should also note about that setup - I'm using Transmission to colour the SSS because the Scattering and Absorption nodes don't accept the Random Color node.
For just single color materials, you can just use RGB or other color inputs (Gaussian Spectrum / Noises / Gradients etc) to have true Wavelength Scattering.

cheers
brasc
Hey there brasco, thanks for the nice explanation, it was really helpful.
That said, I seem to only be able to have scattering if I have something connected to Transmission, and I've found this in other topics: "On diffuse materials subsurface scattering only works after they are set up with diffuse transmission."
So i guess you can only have SSS with some colour in the Transmission, in Diffuse materials?
The only problem is that when I do this, the absorption and the scattering parameters are not changing anything for me. The only way to change the way light penetrates is using the density/scale. Am I doing something wrong?

thanks!
zga042
Licensed Customer
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:19 pm
Contact:

andregodinho wrote: So i guess you can only have SSS with some colour in the Transmission, in Diffuse materials?
That sounds right to me. In my naive view, I think about it like transmission determining the overall transparent color, and SSS altering that overall color for thin/light-affected areas. It's likely not technically precise, but the two are definitely related.
Post Reply

Return to “Maxon Cinema 4D”