is Brigade using PBR materials - YES or NO?

[Notiusweb]

Is Brigade going to use PBR materials?
(Yes/No)

And, if (or when) not using PBR, is it capable of the real-time render speed?
(Yes/No)

Will it have some sort of PBR material converter?
(Yes/No)

Thanks!
(Yes/No)

[Rikk The Gaijin]

I don't see why it wouldn't be PBR. Even real-time engines such as Unreal are PBR, I wouldn't worry about it.
Also, no need to think about it now, as Octane 4 will likely come out in 2019/2020

[Notiusweb]

Re: is Brigade using PBR materials - YES or NO?
Unread postby Rikk The Gaijin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:43 pm
I don't see why it wouldn't be PBR. Even real-time engines such as Unreal are PBR, I wouldn't worry about it.
Also, no need to think about it now, as Octane 4 will likely come out in 2019/2020

Do you believe the alleged Brigade speed is due to PBR usage, or some other realtime elements besides?
I know there are methods to make PBR mats work with Octane, but they still need to render for a few seconds in demos (as opposed to rendering in realtime) , and they are never at a high resolution, which makes me think the speed is not the sought after effect, but rather the mat's illumination accuracy is the sought after component, at this point. Do you think Octane 4 will have the native channels for Albedo, Metallic, Glow, Ambient Occlusion, Fresnel, and stuff like that?
I am interested in your thoughts Rikk!
Thanks!

[Rikk The Gaijin]

In all honesty, I was super hyped for Brigade few years ago, when I thought you could run ray tracing in real-time on a desktop GPU. Unfortunately, when things seem too good to be truth, usually they aren't. It turned out Brigade will work on the cloud, whatever that means, and not on a single desktop GPU, so at the end of the day is gonna be just a stripped down version of Octane, and I'm not sure who the target audience will be.
So, unless I'll be proven wrong, nothing will change, you will still use the regular "offline" render for quality, and real-time engine such as Unreal, for real-time applications and games.
I have no idea about the channels for albedo, normal, specular etc. I mean, Octane have those, so I'm assuming the UI is gonna be the same or pretty close.

[icelaglace]

What do you mean by PBR?

PBR on video games is just the metallic workflow from Disney then approximated BRDF functions and more for real-time.
As the metallic workflow assumes that every non-dielectric materials have a fresnel of 0.04 and metalness is controlled by albedo and specular, it does speed up things for real-time applications.

Brigade can support this easily but in the end, it's mostly a fresnel function that is changing. (not exactly, of course. i'm simplifying here )

Brigade does not do rendering like game engines, it does path tracing like Octane, but with specific optimizations.
Current version of Brigade does work on a single desktop GPU, even on a laptop actually.

For OctaneRender 4, our goal as presented during our previous presentations is to merge Brigade and Octane together and metallic workflow is something we have in mind for our next versions of Octane too, to simplify things between Substance Designer / Quixel to Octane.

[Notiusweb]

What do you mean by PBR?

PBR on video games is just the metallic workflow from Disney then approximated BRDF functions and more for real-time.
As the metallic workflow assumes that every non-dielectric materials have a fresnel of 0.04 and metalness is controlled by albedo and specular, it does speed up things for real-time applications.

Brigade can support this easily but in the end, it's mostly a fresnel function that is changing. (not exactly, of course. i'm simplifying here )

Brigade does not do rendering like game engines, it does path tracing like Octane, but with specific optimizations.
Current version of Brigade does work on a single desktop GPU, even on a laptop actually.

For OctaneRender 4, our goal as presented during our previous presentations is to merge Brigade and Octane together and metallic workflow is something we have in mind for our next versions of Octane too, to simplify things between Substance Designer / Quixel to Octane.

Hello! Thanks so much for the update, sounds great!

I was referring to PBR, or Peanut Butter Rendering.

Rikk mentioned that Brigade is could based. Does this mean that the laptop is using its own GPU somehow, or is it sharing with a cloud-assist?
PBR materials are used by more than Substance Designer and Quixel, but plans are limited to only incorporate those 2 specific applications some how?

What I was imagining with Paul Bunyan Rendering was that there would be, in Octane, native material mode channels which do not exist today. Ie - Besides Diffuse, Glossy, Specular you could have "PBR" (Panera Bread Rendering) or "Metallic" ,and then have the native nodes for Albedo, Ambient Occlusion, Metallic, Roughness, Fresnel, etc....all which would be ready to natively take in an import of a PBR material. And by PBR I am talking of Play Boy Rendering.
Thanks for giving some info on Brigade, I am sure if you ask everyone "Yes or No, do you want PBR incorporated?" everyone would love to see it natively allow incorporation of range from dielectric to metallic, with fresnel, as to not have Brigade be behind the times. We want to be proud of this thing when we buy it!

[Notiusweb]

Here is a question, I know answer to, that would be stellar if Brigade could do!

Q- Can Octane natively import in .sbsar materials?
A - NO

[Jolbertoquini]

Here is a question, I know answer to, that would be stellar if Brigade could do!

Q- Can Octane natively import in .sbsar materials?
A - NO

I would say maybe Yes, if brigade will support all shaders system on Octane standalone should be fine because .sbsar material is supported with Iray integrated at substance product right, so the library will be MDL language and in my understand will be supported aswell osl so could be coded.


Cheers,
JO

[Notiusweb]

One thought I had was how Brigade might work real-time, by combining a layer of raytracing on top of a PBR scene, almost as an augment.
This wouldn't be an accurate solution at all, it would more be a way of achieving a visual result by painting together:
1) the PBR lighting of a scene, with
2) the things Octane can do that PBR can't, on top

But it might only be a cloud solution? Like when it is said that it works on a single desktop GPU, or a laptop, is that because:
(1) it is so very optimized it stretches the local GPU in a way to render real time, or
(2) it is like that of OnLive (now defunct), Nvidia Grid, or Playstation Now gaming service, where the processing is done at home base and then users render offsite on any device...Like a "bumped-up" Octane Cloud?

Or some combo of the 2?

And, Octane works now on a single desktop GPU, but not optimally. But in Brigade's case, it will be optimal in that scenario, somehow?
Like multi-GPU goes to waste? Or is it enhanced by multi-GPU?

Anyway, I don't know why this is interesting but it just is....
Or is it?
Or....is it not.

[Goldorak]

One thought I had was how Brigade might work real-time, by combining a layer of raytracing on top of a PBR scene, almost as an augment.
This wouldn't be an accurate solution at all, it would more be a way of achieving a visual result by painting together:
1) the PBR lighting of a scene, with
2) the things Octane can do that PBR can't, on top

But it might only be a cloud solution? Like when it is said that it works on a single desktop GPU, or a laptop, is that because:
(1) it is so very optimized it stretches the local GPU in a way to render real time, or
(2) it is like that of OnLive (now defunct), Nvidia Grid, or Playstation Now gaming service, where the processing is done at home base and then users render offsite on any device...Like a "bumped-up" Octane Cloud?

Or some combo of the 2?

And, Octane works now on a single desktop GPU, but not optimally. But in Brigade's case, it will be optimal in that scenario, somehow?
Like multi-GPU goes to waste? Or is it enhanced by multi-GPU?

Anyway, I don't know why this is interesting but it just is....
Or is it?
Or....is it not.

It’s definitely a major goal to get this working with Octane 4/Brigade. We have all the pieces between live streaming on x.io, light field baking from ORC/RNDR Jobs and now we’re fully built into Unity (unreal is coming too, but won’t be integrated for free like in Unity)