node editor problems

[mitchino]

I'm trying to use the node editor and experiencing all sorts of weirdness.

OSX, c4d r17, Octane 3 monthly subscription.

If I try to duplicate a node, it does it, but I can't change the name of the node. Then if I close and open the node editor, the node I just duplicated disappears. Even if I save the file after duplicating the node, if I close the node editor and re-open it, the new node has disappeared.

Also generally finding the node editor incredibly slow and laggy, lots of spinning beachball. I have 1 x 980ti in my mac pro.

Going slightly mental...

[aoktar]

It should be fine. Duplicating node is possible by copy/paste or ctrl+drag.
But you should be carreful and try to avoid: using same textures in different materials. This is a common problem.
Can you post your scene to check here?

[mitchino]

Why can't I use the same texture in different materials? That is a very severe limitation. Can you explain?

Because material stacking in the usual c4d manner is extremely limited, I'm trying to build a mix material containing other mix materials.

I need to create a bottle label that has several different inks, varnishes, foils and embosses, each controlled by an alpha mask. All the alpha masks are in a psd file, and I choose which layer I want to use in the bitmap node.

I need to find a way to do this, otherwise Octane is a non-starter for me.

[aoktar]

Why can't I use the same texture in different materials? That is a very severe limitation. Can you explain?

Node editor is a interface to standard material handling of C4D. It doesn't do anything extra on data structures. Not works over a xpresso kinf of interface. So any limitation here is not directly about plugin, it's rather a C4D limitation.
C4D stores any textures under parent nodes. When you create/connect a texture to material, it will be stored under this material. And when you connect this to other material and duplicate or edit second material, this texture will not be tracked or updated. Also copying this complex structure to other scene that will not be handled by C4D's byself. I can go deeper on information but i'm not sure it's good idea, just more confusion to you.

Also I don't say it's not possible to use same node on different materials. But you should know these problems when you do. Alternatively you can create "refshader" on second material and connect your shader.

And if you need stacking that's supported by some limitations. Check posts about stacking.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=57649

[mitchino]

And when you connect this to other material and duplicate or edit second material, this texture will not be tracked or updated.

In c4d I can just choose 'reload image' to update a texture used in different places

I've attached a c4d physical render of my label. I need to know if I can achieve the same kind of thing in Octane. Multiple inks, foils, varnishes etc on the same label. Embosses, debosses etc etc.

If anyone is doing similar work in Octane for c4d, please let me know how it's done!

[aoktar]

Did not checked my sample scene from link? It should be enough to explain. Is not?

[mitchino]

Yes I've looked at the link. I understand how I can stack materials with alpha mask in opacity channel. I can also add bump to those materials. I don't seem to be able to add displacement to any of the stacked materials or the base material. Is this possible?

[aoktar]

Yes I've looked at the link. I understand how I can stack materials with alpha mask in opacity channel. I can also add bump to those materials. I don't seem to be able to add displacement to any of the stacked materials or the base material. Is this possible?

Yes correct. All possible else of displacements. Because mix material will not consider displacements which comes from input materials. You have to do by node editor or materials editor on classic methods if you still need displacements.

[mitchino]

So can I set up a base material with displacement on it, then stack other materials with alpha masks on top of that?

Or is there no way to have displacement and stacking together?

If you look at my example, the paper has a base colour texture with displacement in some areas, and then various inks and foils are printed on top. Is this possible in Octane?

[aoktar]

- No you can't use displacement with stacking. This is one of limitations.
You may think to use bump in this object. It's not much noticable height.