Request for official statement concerning the OcDS plugin

[linvanchene]

Facts are:
- The last stable OcDS plugin version 1.2x was released in February 2014.
- In September 2014 we were promised that things will change and regular updates will be released until a final version is presentable.
- In December 2014 we got prerelease 5th which still was not production ready.
- Six months later in June 2015 we got the "last Beta" which fixed a lot of things but then broke the basic auto conversion functionality and introduced unintended keyboard shortcut interaction with the DAZ Studio UI.

- - -

t_3 requested that when there is an issue next time I should write him a PM instead of making public posts on the forum.

I did that on June 28 2015 asking if there will be a hot fix so we can finally start working again.

The answer I got was

Hello t_3
What currently would help me would be an update that just gives us a simple option to load only the most basic maps.

- OcDS creates a simple diffuse material
- adds all diffuse maps
- adds bump maps if available

- ignores normal, SSS, specular and all that other Iray / 3Delight stuff that will not look good in OR anyway...


But I guess it is not as simple as that?
Can you share what your current plans are?
If you know that there will not be an update for weeks it would be great if you publicly or privately share that.
In that case I would take some time off and leave DAZ, Otoy and you to work in peace while I focus my attention on other things.
greetings lin

... actually it's as "simple" as that, and its half done already - since there were other request for that too. there are new checkboxes to the texture section in the preferences, to select which maps to load or not; and another option to select whether only simple or complex mats should be created.

i really don't think about weeks but rather days.. jul. 1 would be a good date, but could be a few more. i'm currently changing all the keyboard access options to have them customizable in studio; mainly also to avoid conflicts with shortcuts that are used elsewhere, as it's up to the user to either have one here or there then. as usual there are shortcomings, as studio only allows one target action for a (unique) keyboard shortcut. imo this is unacceptable for basic things like ctrl+c/x/v (and del), so still need some workarounds to allow at least context sensitive copy & paste (and delete).

I waited more than a month after that promised release date of early July.

On August 18 2015 I sent the following PM to t_3

Hello t_3

Can you share some information about what you currently are working on and answer some open questions.

I may share your answers on the forum or with Otoy staff.

- - -

1) What caused the delay of another release of more than one and a half month?

In your last message you wrote a release is days away and not weeks.

2) Is the rewriting of the whole OcDS code now finished or is there still remaining code from the original version that needs to be updated?

I understand that there is not much point in releasing frequent updates as long as you are working on the underlying basic code and each update would not be compatible with the one before. But I really hoped that phase of developing would finally be over?

3) Are you working on a OctaneRender 3 version of the plugin or will the OctaneRender 2 version be the last version?

Some people keep repeating on the forum that the next OcDS version will be the last.
I would appreciate an official word if that is baseless speculation or if you indeed shared with some people allready that Otoy pulled the plug and will not anymore support DAZ Studio.

4) Why is it not possible to fix one issue and then release an update?

To me it seems that you are trying to fix everything at the same time and spend months working on that.
In the meantime either DAZ or Otoy are releasing an update and all the work may become obsolete again.

IF more frequent updates would be released

- it might actually be easier to track down which change caused which new bug
- hot fixes a week after an update could at least fix the minor issues that are just annoying but not time consuming to adress

- - -

Thank you for helping me to understand.

A week later on August 25 2015 that message is still in the outbox.

This means it has not even been read after a week.
Maybe the plugin developer is in a two week holiday.

But I guess that is not the real issue here.

The real issue is that one year after OctaneRender version 2 was officially released there is still not a stable production ready OcDS plugin available.

- Instead of releasing hot fixes every two weeks to address at least the minor issues we are still waiting months between releases.
- Instead of sharing information on the forum about the state of the progress customers are still left in the dark
- Instead of hiring or assigning a second developer to the OcDS plugin to make up for the time lost customers are once again kept waiting

Can someone representing Otoy make an official statement to share what the plans are for the OcDS plugin and answer the questions asked in the PM of August 18 2015 on behalf of the OcDS plugin developer?

[Spectralis]

linvanchene, I really respect your contribution to this forum and you've helped me a lot to learn about OcDS. I agree with everything you've written in this post but I think you're wasting your time expecting t_3 to act in a way we would like. We've tried numerous times, in different ways to develop better communication and it has never worked so while I support this attempt I don't hold out any hope that there will be change. Happily, despite other problems, I'm now able to render animation with v2. It's small crumbs but things have been so bad for so long and I've felt so powerless to do anything about it that any update seems like a gift. Sadly that shows how far I have lowered my expectations and why I speculate that OcDS v3 will either never happen or take years to materialise. I think OTOY has lost its chance to lead the way for low end unbiased renderers. Despite the great work on the Octane Poser plugin, Smith Micro have gone with Cycles. Probably a decision based on cost but it wouldn't surprise me if they observed the OcDS problems and lost interest. All the lower end 3D apps have decided to license unbiased renderers other than OTOY's products which seems a very different outcome to what I imagined when I first bought OcDS. Maybe I was niave but it did seem to me back in the day that DAZ Studio/OcDS would be a great fit.

[larsmidnatt]

I agree with the OP. I'd like some response from Otoy.

Not to sidetrack but Octane isn't low end... Also there is already a Octane Render Plugin for Poser... So Otoy is doing fine there. Many people seem to enjoy the Poser plugin and you will notice it even has a free trial, just like 3DS Max Octane plugin. Otoy seems proud of their success with Poser. Smith Micro would use Cycles because it's free. Makes no business sense for them to go with Octane. Even if the plugin was free, the standalone is still $330. Most poser users would not use that. From the amount of plugins Otoy has, you can see they have a lot of coverage. Not sure why someone would misinterpret that.

[Goldorak]

I will follow up with the NZ office tomorrow and make sure we are continuing to update this forum regularly with progress reports.

[kibbycabbit]

Thank you. Thumbs up!

[SiliconAya]

Wow an actual response.

Although at this point, any further follow up we get, I'm expecting to be a long the lines of "Everything is fine here *waves hands*", because that's all we've gotten in the last few years.

[larsmidnatt]

I will follow up with the NZ office tomorrow and make sure we are continuing to update this forum regularly with progress reports.

Thank you!

Wow an actual response.

Although at this point, any further follow up we get, I'm expecting to be a long the lines of "Everything is fine here *waves hands*", because that's all we've gotten in the last few years.

To be fair, at least now we occasionally have someone pop in and respond to posts. While they have not been directly about the plugin progress, it's more than just t_3 visiting in on us and trying to help users. So I do think things are changing, even if it has been painfully slow.

[Spectralis]

I will follow up with the NZ office tomorrow and make sure we are continuing to update this forum regularly with progress reports.

Thanks for agreeing to do this. I and others have contacted OTOY in the past requesting regular communication updates (once a month at least) but this hasn't been followed up consistently. Hopefully this time it will.

[Goldorak]

I will follow up with the NZ office tomorrow and make sure we are continuing to update this forum regularly with progress reports.

Thanks for agreeing to do this. I and others have contacted OTOY in the past requesting regular communication updates (once a month at least) but this hasn't been followed up consistently. Hopefully this time it will.

No problem. There are a lot of plug-ins and products we have to oversee, but we don't want there to ever be a case where communication isn't flowing regularly, and we are here to help with that.

[Elele]

I will follow up with the NZ office tomorrow and make sure we are continuing to update this forum regularly with progress reports.

Weren't you supposed to have done that 3 months ago? You basically posted the same thing on Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:13 am:

This is from a month ago and we're still in the dark.

Oh wow...

I thought that the twitter link Goldorak posted was kind of empty since it didn't answer any questions, but I didn't look closely enough to realize it was from a month old tweet.

That is almost beyond belief. Why don't we have information and communication from Otoy more meaningful than this?

We rely on 3rd party developers to provide customer support/feedback on a regular basis for the software they are offering through our store.

That being said, we are ultimately responsible for your satisfaction and are fully invested in the success of this software.

We will make sure communication regarding the road map is more frequent and consistent - at least every few weeks, if not more often, until it is out of beta.