C.E.L.C. (Custom External Liquid Cooler) - 'I have a dream"

Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:49 pm

Hi guys,

'I have a dream"
Thanx to guys like Smicha and Glimpe I got into watercooling and start dreaming about bright future.

As Glimpse has mentioned in another thread:
"hehe, Thanks! we'll try to continue this series, maybe with "inspired builds" as quite some Guys built some cool systems after reading it! =) so, maybe I'll try to put some content out there continuing this theme =)"
a sperate corner for "inspired builds" would be nice to have... moderators, maybe you can pick up this idea?
For now I will start this thread here in Off Topic Forum.

OK... now it is time for the real thing: C.E.L.C. (Custom External Liquid Cooler)

Maybe this summer I will build my first watercoold build. To keep the story short...

I probably havea to use an external radiator and one idea lead to another.
And now the current idea to examine is to have it all external.
Maybe in a separate Cool Custom Case (let's cal it CCC

maybe like Wall-mounted design.
Anyway.. it is just a thought.

These are inspriations I have found on the internet that brought me an idea to start my own C.E.L.C. plan for bright future.
(I do not want infringe any copyrights by getting the images from internet... as long as I am showing the source, it is cool to use them as references, right?.. this happens all the time on the forum, right?... I guess these guys are only proud by getting the stuff even more in the open.)

C.E.L.C. 01 by srbananaphone
Link: http://youtu.be/RqjY6bZ5FG0
“My Intel i5-2500k CPU is liquid cooled by a custom external water cooling loop I assembled. The chassis that everything is mounted in is hand built by myself, completely custom from acrylic and aluminium. The idea started on graph paper and the rest came together with some power tools in my garage.”

CELC-REF-01.JPG

C.E.L.C. 02 by hivoltage
Link: http://www.instructables.com/id/Compute ... /?ALLSTEPS
“This Instructable will document how to build an external liquid cooling system for a computer based around an automotive heater core. This Instructable is really more of a guide than a set of instructions to create a duplicate system. Make yours as flashy or utilitarian as you desire.”

CELC-REF-02A.JPG

C.E.L.C. 03 by klimpen
Link: http://goo.gl/StZMFI (on http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums)
“What about this $450 to get rid of one fan?- The External Watercooling build“

CELC-REF-03C.JPG

C.E.L.C. 04 by Recoil P
Link : http://www.overclock.net/t/1467135/wall ... oilmachine
"I used my existing hardware, but separated each component out and mounted them on a Perspex/Plexiglass plate. Each plate is backlit with LED's and mounted on a piece of framed and vinyl-clad hardboard."

CELC-REF-04.JPG

And below you can see my current plan scheme (not visual design, but first draft of formation(S).
You can see I am looking for flexibility to expand in future.
Plan in near future is to watercool one PC.
It seems unreal to really make 3 PC's watercooled, but you never know what future brings and if 'we win the lotery, we better be ready for it'

And it is nice to dream. And more important right now is that by examining this idea I will get to learn a lot about watercooling.
And we can enjoy al the great stuff that is out there by looking for like inspirations like I showed above.

Anyway.. hope you like this thread and maybe you like to add nice inspirations as well

greetz,

CELC-formation1.jpg

CELC-formation2.jpg

CELC-formation3.jpg

Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:46 pm

I went through external watercooling and (I'll be short):
- it introduces mess
- is source of dust
- requires larger pump speed/noise/pressure
- requires larger amount of pumps
- requires longer tubing
- is prone to kinked tubing
- reduces flow and efficiency of water cooling
- requires quick disconnects which is expensive
- occupies extra space
- looks very bad
- is more expensive than internal (what seems to be strange)
- all fans mounted internally for air flow are wasted (not cooling water)

The amount of radiators for external watercooling is the same as for internal. Watercooling is effective if radiators have easy access to open space and fresh air. What may seem strange but you'd save more money and get better efficiency with internal solutions. If you want to benefit from watercooling stop looking for exotic solutions - just get 900D (if cannot afford caselabs), get 2x480 rad into each one, 1xD5 pump and have great setup for 4 gpu each.

If you don't have any money invested yet think 'internally' - all computers will be easy to move, clean, quiet and elegant. Don't force yourself with this very bad solutions. I went through all of this for 3 years. Don't copy my mistakes.

PS. I envy you Bitspower waterblocks for Z

Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:55 pm

Approximate costs of watercooling for 4 graphics cards (excluding waterblocks).

- 900D - 350E
- 1xD5 pump - 70E
- fittings and tubing - 50E
- 2x480 rads - 200E
- 8 fans - 100E
- reservoir - 50E

All - about 850EUR

Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:01 pm

Look how beautiful a watercooled 900D may be (although I find 900D quality mean)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLXiukYXlNY

Take your time

Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:37 pm

Hi Rappet,

always nice to dream about new hardware, but at the end it`s all about high performance, low noise and the temperatures in your room, I guess

So if you like stylish Cases and PC Design, go for it... but you will spend extra money on that for sure.

I will go a bit deeper into it, not short, sorry for that *g*.

I don`t see a real advantage of getting all watercooling elements (Pump, Reservoir) out of the case, but using big radiators externely is key in my experience! Radiators need Airflow... and this airflow you don`t get inside a PC case, unless you use a lot of noisy fans.
The larger your Radiator is (the larger the cooling surface), the better your water will be cooled down, and your GPU devices... and the longer it takes to heat up your room. But if you go for 7/24h rendering, you need some sort of external room cooling... or an airstream from outside the room.

One MORA for 4 Graphic Cards is quite fine, but the airstream that comes out of it is like a heating device while full rendering with 1500W. (constantly 35-40°C with 38°C water temperature and 22°C room temperature, kept at this level with a open window with temperatures outside below 20°C)

As you already discovered: The waste heat of 1500W... or double it with a second unit, the waste heat of 3000W!! has to go somewhere... and if your working space isn`t very large, it will heat it up a lot... and when the room gets hotter by lets say 4-5 degrees celsius, the water will even get hotter and GPUs too... and the airstream out of the Radiator, too... heating up the room a little more.

If you use to small radiators, water temperatures will get critical. You should get it below 40 degree celsius, although most watercooling elements are made for top temperatures of 55-60°C... but watercooling pipes out of plastic really get softer the higher the temperature is, I don`t think this would last for a long time with higher temperatures over 50°C

I don`t think there is such a big difference between the thermal heat waste of aircooled and watercooled devices... with the advantage of watercooling to be way less noisy and cooling down the devices a lot more (about 20-30°C less temperature on your GPUs besides air-cooling). But the disadvanteges is the cost of the watercooling-setup and the time you spent to change something in this closed waterloop setup.
Best way to get rid of all the problems: Spent your Machine an extra room outside your working room, that has a good airflow or airconditioner. Then there might be no need for watercooling at all.

If this is not possible, you should go for watercooling, and the main task of your Watercooling Dream Machine Build-Up is:

How to get rid of that waste heat???

1. If you go for a larger Watercooling-Loop, get it really large and place your Radiators somewhere outside the room or even outdoors, of course rainproof and secure. You might need 2 pumps, to keep the waterstream alive for a long distance.

2. Waste another 1000-1500W for airconditioning the 1500W heast waste back to cool air.

Not very efficient, but maybe you have to think about it for the hot summer weeks.
A large Fan in front of the radiator with turbo airstream does a good job too, but this introduces noise again, and it will not be very working athmosphere friendly.

I hope this helps on some of your conceptional thoughts. The actual building of the watercooling stuff isn`t that difficult and it is lots of fun (if you are into technical stuff)... but there are physical limits with the waste heat you really have to think of, if you go for larger setups (4-8 cards or more).

Let me know, if you need some specific advices, when you start building your rig. I have some watercooling experience for 4 years now.
Lately I spent my PC (which holds 2 Graphic Cards) a second 3xRadiator (external on top of the case), to get better water temperatures.
I divided the loop in between the 2 Cards, so the second card doesn`t get all the hot water from the cpu and the first card.
That might also make sense in a 4 Graphic cards setup... to divide the loop in between the 2nd and 3rd card, if you have 2 Radiators. This will get better overall water temps and also nearly the same temps on every gpu. In my Turbobox the waterloop is going from the first card to the last and there are temperature differences of about 15°-20°C in max from the first to the last Gpu. (45°C to 63°C at the moment at constantly rendering animation frames)

Greetings,
ChrisVis

Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:42 pm

smicha wrote:Look how beautiful a watercooled 900D may be (although I find 900D quality mean)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLXiukYXlNY

Take your time

Yes Smicha, bring me down to earth

I thought the big loop for 2 or three PC's would not be realistic... but nice to dream about and explore the idea though.
And the open external cooler has lot of disadvantages as you mentioned quiet a few
Good that you have been there and can share your experience for others to save from making same less fortune

The external (closed) liquid cooler might still be interesting to look into for one PC loop.
You probably say "stop dreaming and buy a new 900D case"... but I like to study the alternatives and learn about it all that way.

And the inspirations are still a joy to hunt on the internet.

Nice youtube vid on the 900D.. very stylish config!
Your estimated investment is somethiing to think about for increasing mayor renderspeed!
(Watercooling is solution to gian renderspeed and having to stay within 12 gpu limit)

(And yeah, happy with the Bitspower hardware! Lucky day to grab them after all)

Greetz,

Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:58 pm

Hi ChrisVis,

Thank you for all that input and wisdom.

About heat...... I am to build a seperate closed space for the PC's (in all cases: aircooled or watercooled GPU).
I have a thread about this 'CoolBox':
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... it=Coolbox
In short the end thought now is:
"In basic the CoolBox will be closed when full rendering and the airco will easily be able to keep the small space cool.
In Summer I can even open the CoolBox to get aircooling in my working space when it is too hot by sun shining through window."
The airco will not have another 1500W, but more like 800W. I know it is a lot of Watts to first get the GPU on heat and then extra Watts to get rid of the heat. But I need to do something. I am thinking though of use the heat for other spaces in winter time.

Mmm... Makes sense about only the rads external and the pump and other inside.
I'll keep on study alternatives to compare (and learn during research).

I live this community with guys like you helping each other and share knowledge and experience.
Super!

Greetz,

Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:15 pm

smicha wrote:Approximate costs of watercooling for 4 graphics cards (excluding waterblocks).

- 900D - 350E
- 1xD5 pump - 70E
- fittings and tubing - 50E
- 2x480 rads - 200E
- 8 fans - 100E
- reservoir - 50E

All - about 850EUR

Not to forget... A 2000W PSU

(€350?)
And a kind of display unit (with temps, flow...) or how do you monitor?

Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:49 pm

Hi Rappet,

yeah I am glad to share my watercooling experience, still learning by doing

.
I have seen your coolbox thread and thought of it. This might be a good Idea, if the airconditioner can handle the heat and the room is a good noiseblocker. I don`t have any experience on airconditioners... do you tink a 800W cooling device might be enough to cool down 1500W waste energy?. Would be interested in some insights of your research here.

Smicha also threw in some good points and his building thread is quite nice, too.
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=130

Did one 3 years ago, but smicha got quite deeper into it, or at least spent more time on it.
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... tercooling

As you mentioned in smichas thread: The heat out of the PSU is always there! No matter if you air-cool or water cool. And in fact, it is getting really hot, when you drive a 1200 Watt PSU at 1100-1200 Watt. If you drive it at 700-800 Watt, it is much cooler and less noisier. Thats why I got a second PSU for my external rig, so it makes sense to split the Power of 4 graphic Cards on 2 PSUs, at least in terms of noise and heat.

@smicha
Some of your points I had different experience with:

"I went through external watercooling"
- is source of dust -> yeah, you have to clean up the radiator from time to time, but thats the same on internal settings (at least for dust filters, if you use them)

- requires larger pump speed/noise/pressure -> if you only go for external radiator, there is no difference or need for bigger pump. I have the same pump in my PC and in my external Rig.

- requires larger amount of pumps -> not really

- requires longer tubing -> yes, but thats not really a cost factor

- is prone to kinked tubing -> you can use kink protector

- reduces flow and efficiency of water cooling -> maybe a little bit... I have no direct actual comparison, but my PC has a 4x Radiator and a 3x Radiator with 2 GPUs... Watertemps go up to 40-42°C and the external Box has a 9xRadiator (MO RA3 9x), 6 GPUs and the Watertemps only go up to 37°C.

- requires quick disconnects which is expensive -> yes and no, bought some on aquatuning 2 weeks ago, they have some on discount for 4€ each... 3 years ago I spent 12€ each for excactly the same:
http://www.aquatuning.de/wasserkuehlung ... ckel?c=275
http://www.aquatuning.de/wasserkuehlung ... ack-nickel
EDIT: linking seems not to work properly to their site... search for the article number 1011092 and 65211

- occupies extra space -> well, thats right

I did some research and found something, that might be also a very good solution. So maybe no need for Radiator and airconditioning, but cooling the water directly, externaly with a waterchiller (Hailea Ultra Titan)?

http://www.aquatuning.de/water-cooling/ ... tion?c=594

I wonder how it works, even with this system, the heat must go somewhere physically.

Greetings,
ChrisVis

Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:13 pm

rappet wrote:
smicha wrote:Approximate costs of watercooling for 4 graphics cards (excluding waterblocks).

- 900D - 350E
- 1xD5 pump - 70E
- fittings and tubing - 50E
- 2x480 rads - 200E
- 8 fans - 100E
- reservoir - 50E

All - about 850EUR
Not to forget... A 2000W PSU (€350?)
And a kind of display unit (with temps, flow...) or how do you monitor?

A simple temp sensor costs 5 EUR, fan controller from 20 to 200 EUR (aquaero 6XT). I didn't give prices for PSU because I meant only internal cooling specific parts.

I agree with many/most things that ChrisVis said. What I may add from my experience: I have a single loop - 4 gpus in parallel setup (temp difference is about 2C between 1st and 4th card). 'Hot' water affect directly CPU and it never exceeds 55C under full load (4.5Ghz 24/7) Water temp is about 25C to 35C. GPUS are overclocked by 30%. It's all dead quiet. Pumps are set to 1600RPMs (out of 4800). Has power of 5.5 titans on air. You'll never reach it on air. The computer is located next to a window. During hot summer days I open a door and a window for air circulation. And it's not getting hot. But yes - a room must have some air flow.

If you think about many computers externally cooled watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8bLtg9J1Oc
and all its parts.

Let's assume you want to move one workstation from one place to another - what will you do with such external solution?