Which card as extension on a Titan Black?

[Heerko]

Hi guys,

I just purchased Octane for C4D a few days ago. And I'm loving it! This will be the renderer of choice for me for the near future.

So I was thinking about expanding my render power. But I'm not sure what card(s) I should buy for this.

I currently have a MSI Titan Black card installed.

I have done some research and think these would be my best options:

-another Titan Black
-780
-970/980

Would you agree on that, or am I overlooking something?

What would be the best bang for the buck?

The Titan Black and the 780 have 6GB of memory of course. But my question is (due to lack of experience in Octane) when would you reach that 6 GB? Would 4 GB also be more than enough? Even for large scene files?

[glimpse]

hi there,

it depends:

* what hardware You have (I mean motherboard, case, PSU..etc.)
* What is Your budget
* what are Your future plans..

780 (6GB) will give You best value so far (price performance ration), though You have to keep in mind those are produced with aftermarket/nonreference coolers & thus keeping multiple cards stacked side by side You loose their performance (we talked 'bout that lightly with Sebastian in this article).

TitanZ comes after as it house the same, but two gk110 chips on a single PCB - however it three slot cards & better leave a space between to breath..-if not, again You loose some performance. Or the options is, again - watercooling that gives You a possibility to shrink card to dual slot unit as a bonus. Lightly covered that here

Then again, 980 - Keplers gk204 - safe to say it's not the best from familly (so far, but probably not for long as GTC is just around the corner =) if 4GB is enough, why not, but..780 gives better overall value (do talk why in the first article I've linked before =)

The memory issues comes to Your needs, workflows, working habits, etc. For some even 3GB cads are more than enough, other will always get 6GB. You should keep in mind that new version of Octane Render brought out-of-the-core textures, feature that allows part of the scene to housed on systems RAM instead of vRAM (only textues)..-You loose some rendering performance, but/again..what are Your priorities.

so to sum up: do Your homework, test some scenes & look around this forum - You'll find a lot useful info =) or simply drop a line explaining Your situation, daily workload bit better so users could help You =) every case is different & there's no "Best card", just the One that fits Your needs =)

[Heerko]

Thanks for your response Glimpse!

As far for my specs:

Windows 8.1 64
Motherboard ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS
2 x Intel® Xeon® E5-2687W V2 (2 x 8 core at 3,4 Ghz)
CPU Cooler 2 xNH-D14 Noctua NH-D14 SE2011
MSI NTITAN Black 6GD5
PSU Seasonic X-1050
RAM 64GB Kingston Value RAM DDR3-1600 ECC Reg
Case Fractal Design Define xl r2 Black Pearl
Cooling 3 x Fractal Design Silent Series R2 140 mm

How many cards do you think can I safely put in there without having to resort to watercooling?

My budget... yeah what can I say. I rather not spend too much. But I rather spend a little bit more if it's significantly better. I wonder if it's better to have one expensive card or two less expensive ones (Does this apply: the chain is as strong as the weakest link?)

As far as heavy scenes. The last job I did was a pretty heavy scene which killed my viewport responsiveness because of geometry. But as far as I understand most of the memory will get filled with textures? And then specifically bitmap textures? Or am I wrong on that? I'm not totally clear on the workings of Octane and GPU rendering yet.

Thanks again for helping me

[Heerko]

BTW really interesting reads on the links you gave me!

It does make my head spin though to dive that deep into hardware and cooling. But as I read it, it can surely pay off to have watercooling for better performance.

[smicha]

If I may recommend something - try to acquire the same cards as you have (if you don't want to sell them). If you reach 4 of them it may happen that you are not happy with their temps and then watercooling comes to play. And bridging/joining different cards with water connectors may be difficult or even impossible.

[glimpse]

Have to say, You got quite a kit =) powerful beast with a lot of possibilities.

My budget... yeah what can I say. I rather not spend too much. But I rather spend a little bit more if it's significantly better.

without any other upgrades (just purely looking to GPU) You can have up to 3x GPUs (considering You already have one, so two more - let's say TitanBlacks, 780s or single TitanZ - as it's dual GPU card - all of them are based on the same technology, having GK100 chips under the hood)

as mentioned, 780 6GB (for 400-500$) will give You the best value (but hard to find), then TitanZ (if You manage to find it around 1500$) and last but not the least of these will be TitanBlack for around $1000.

Titan Black might look least attractive as it offers less value compared to something like 780, but on the other side it has reference design blower type cooler, that emits all the heat out of the case. In Multi GPU rigs with air cooling that's a benefit, because if GPU reach certain temperatures You start loosing performance because of thermal throttling (read more in that long article). Non reference design circulate all the heat inside the case (for this You need extra airflow to get rid) & then TitanZ split - half of the heat is dumped through rear IO while the half still stays inside the case..

- what ever You choose keep in mind to get better fans in front (20-50$) investment into pair of fans will give You better temps and performance with controllable noise levels =)

Personally I'd go for TitanZ & to max out Your current config. Without any additional investment (maybe only into pair of fans, though You should check if Your PSU can handle load stably) this simple upgrade would let You to render 3x faster than You do now on single Titan Black.

Spacing cards out so both of them Would have plenty of space between & would not startve from fresh (cold air is a good practice).

but why Z, You may ask. Wwll, because later You with simple upgrade if You ever choose watercooling will allow You to have dual GPU card inside Your rig while taking only two slots (in simple words power density is twice better than what Titan Black or 780 on air could offer).

Let's jump to software, we're done with hardware =)

I wonder if it's better to have one expensive card or two less expensive ones (Does this apply: the chain is as strong as the weakest link?)

The way OctaneRender works is that You have to fit scene into vRAM of every card =) so if You have let's say 3GB & 6GB card Your usable amount of vRAM is 3GB - so in this case yeah, Your concert is straight to the point..

I mentioned out-of-the-core texture feature - that allows You not to be limited by vRAM, but that comes in expense of speed drop..(because of slow interface & additional process required to refresh data needed for rendering process)

While rendering Your whole scene should fit inside vRAM (Geometry,Textures & let's say "frameBuffer") - geometry is not so heavy (You'll likely get into program limmit of 19mln tris, if I remember good, before You'll reach vRAM ceiling). Textures is another thing that eats up ram, but it purelly repends at what resolutions You're working (& with out-of-core textures You can find a way around).

What is going to eat a lot of space is resolution : let's say high res, 8K (square) -see here- will eat You up to 2.1GB - jsut to be able to render the output =) so..if You ask me..I would not go for less than 6GB..considering limitations & the fact You probably don't want to buy new gear once more demanding project is going to arrive =)

BTW really interesting reads on the links you gave me!

It does make my head spin though to dive that deep into hardware and cooling. But as I read it, it can surely pay off to have watercooling for better performance

Yeah, as Sebastian nicely puts - 40% difference in terms of performance is really justified, especially when You can spend less.

I wouldn't call that a necessity, more like a high end solution in a case when You need more power but could not physically fit more hardware =) or, when You want silence - that's costly..but as we nailed down that topic - totally worth the effort!

so in the end,

I'd say TitanZ makes sense for me in Your case..
if You wan't to have less spending get 780 6GB =)

cheers

If I may recommend something - try to acquire the same cards as you have (if you don't want to sell them). If you reach 4 of them it may happen that you are not be happy with their temps and then watercooling comes to play. And bridging/joining different cards with water connectors may be difficult or even impossible.

valid point from Smicha
(the same Sebastian from article =)

[Heerko]

Hmmm yeah I get the point of the watercooling and getting the same cards.

But on the other hand, I found at a webshop I could buy 2 x ASUS STRIX-GTX780-OC-6GD5 for 875,42 euro instead of one Titan black for € 964,49.

Somehow buying two cards feels like a bigger improvement for the money than buying one. Am I right in that aspect? Or completely off?

The 780 has 2,304 cuda cores and the titan black 2,880. So does that mean 4608 vs 2880 for less money? Or should I also take clock speeds in account?

[smicha]

Get 780 6gb - they are fantastic cards but keep in mind what Glimpse said -they have non reference coolers and you'll need extra space between twem. Or sell your titan black, buy 4x780 and watercool them.

[glimpse]

Get 780 6gb - they are fantastic cards but keep in mind what Glimpse said -they have non reference coolers and you'll need extra space between twem. Or sell your titan black, buy 4x780 and watercool them.

- the best idea actually.

TitanBlack is a nice card (have one myself - got a great deal while looking for 780 6GB, so took this one), but overall those STRIX run insanely good in open air, just a bit hot if placed side by side, 'cos those non reference coolers couldn't cope with heat very good in this scenario =)

the only thing other than cooler that Titan Black could be better in is DP performance, but it's not important for Octane (at least for now). Think Abstrac (Marcus) mentioned that only hair will have something to do with DP..- so if You buying cards for Octane this deal You're getting with 780 is very good indeed! I would actually take 3 or four & sell TitanBlack..

grab them, but think of better cooling =) with time..- if You want to gain more speed & better temps or acoustic performance =)

[Heerko]

I was so happy I narrowed down the choice with the help of you guys. So I immediately opened up my case to make sure there is enough room to have space between the cards.

But I forgot how huge the Noctua coolers were..

Do you guys think it's wise to put two 780's in this current configuration?