Alembic export vs. Octane plug-in

[kraken]

Hi,

I'm debating whether or not to get the alembic plug-in or the octane plug-in. I'm currently doing a scene involving a planet, asteroid field, and spaceships. Obviously, I want to use
instances of the asteroids (for performance). So which method would work: Create the scene and paths in Daz3D cloning all the asteroids and exporting with the alembic plug-in, or use the octane plug-in. This leads to other questions. Will the exported object still be regarded as instances, or should I only export the parent asteroids, and then create instances of them after the alembic file is opened...furthermore how would I set a path to those objects? In short how would I effectively create 200 independent moving asteroids?

[sikotik13]

Purely hypothetically, (and if someone has done more extensive stuff with instances, please let me know), as of right now, were you to go the route of instancing, I would send the individual asteroid to the standalone or another program and instance it there, if possible. Instance groups in DS are... unique. The way the plugin has to read them (as of right now, may change soon), they often get updated incorrectly. I cannot remember if this was on the list of problems supposed to be solved with the new version arriving soon, but if it isn't it will certainly be on my short list of things to suggest. Daz, from what I gathered months ago when looking into that method also did odd things with alembics, but that may have been improved in recent updates as well. I don't use them, so cannot be certain. Note: I consider both of these to be problem with Daz Studio, not necessarily the plugin. Daz Studio does some weird stuff behind the scenes, that baffles many plugin developers.

For slight clarification, you can pull off instancing in the plugin. I have done so multiple times. My only really trouble-free situations have been instancing primitives, however (for example, three instance groups of 10 spheres each worked just fine). Something I consider relatively simple, like a low poly microphone, gets incorrectly updated to the plugin location-wise if instanced more than once. If only dealing with a small number, it's not hard to tweak on the fly to get it where you need it, but for that many asteroids, it could potentially be virtually impossible to keep track. One instance of anything relatively simple seems to work just fine. An instance group of anything more complex than a primitive (even an instance group of 2 wall sections, which surprised me), tends to get mis-positioned and mis-rotated (and occasionally mis-surfaced, though if you are rendering in the standalone, that would be a moot point for you), at least in my experience. Given that the plugin just gets told by DS where to place instances, I wouldn't be surprised if instancing was another thing DS does in some nonsensical fashion, honestly. Thus, my suggestion to instance in the standalone or an alternate program, if possible.

[Spectralis]

That's interesting to know because I tried to instance about 5 street lights in a scene once but got totally confused about placement because the viewport didn't seem to reflect the position I placed them in correctly. After a lot of mucking about I eventually managed to get the placement right. If there's something wrong with instancing I wouldn't like to work with 200 moving asteroids.

[kraken]

Again, thanks for the prompt response. At worse case, I can manually path each asteroid (some will probably be statically drifting, not tumbling). The illusion will not be so difficult (at least the way I'm thinking of doing it). I found a sample .abc file and tried it out. It worked fine. As described, each object will require materials to be adjusted within Octane. The materials did carry through to each frame - very exciting. So if I go with the alembic export, what work around do I have to get custom camera paths? From my understanding there is no way to set a camera in Daz3D and then expect that path (and settings) to appear in Octane. Also, I've already tweaked the materials for a particular object in Octane, looks awesome. How can I import those materials and apply them to the .abc version of the object. The object is a planet (a sphere) with an atmosphere, ocean and continents all on independent nested sphere. The planet.obj appears as a mesh with 3 materials (air, ocean, land), does the .abc version show those three placeholders or are they exported as individual meshes with one material (some of these spaceship have a lot of parts).

The scene will consist of ships flying bobbing and weaving through the asteroids, the camera will be following them from various perspectives. If the camera can only be stationary and rotate, then I can stop worrying about using this for production.

Some of these questions should simply be framed as "can" it be done rather than how, considering I don't have the alembic export or octane plug-in, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to explain it if I don't have it in front of me. I'm mostly trying to figure out what I need to buy to get the job done. I certainly bought my share of deuces, just trying to avoid an unnecessary aggravating experience.

Thanks again for your feedback.
James

[Spectralis]

You're asking about a very specific scene set up with hundreds of instances of an object. Sikotik13 raised the problem with instancing and that's my experience too with the OR plugin. Have you thought of buying the alembic plugin? It has a 30 day money back guarantee.

The Octane Render plugin uses the camera information from DAZ. When you say you've tested an .abc file and tweaked materials in Octane was that in the OR trial? If so please be aware that the standalone is different from the plugin. A very straight forward way to handle what you want to do is to render the asteroids or groups of asteroids as alphas and then composite them all in an NLE like Sony Vegas Pro or After Effects. You can set the whole scene up in DS as you like, switch off parts of it and then render each part of the scene as an alpha in OR. That's how I handle complex scenes with many moving objects.

[kraken]

That's an interesting approach. I own Octane v2.0 standalone and Daz3D, no plug-ins. My debate is whether or not Daz's alembic export vs. Octane's plug-in will handle the camera setting. I didn't know that about the alembic guarantee (there really is no information about its features - therefore, no idea what to expect). Considering the OR plug-in is coming out with a new version shortly, I see no reason to buy it at this time. AND now knowing there is a 30 day guarantee for the Daz plug-in, if it lacks the functionality I'm after, then I can get a refund...so the clear choice is to buy the alembic plug-in and hope it gets me down the road.

I really appreciate your feedback. I surprised there is more documentation.

Cheers,
James

[sikotik13]

As Spectralis mentioned, the plugin does use the Daz camera information directly. So you could probably use his method, which I hadn't thought of either and is a neat idea, with the plugin, since it is all within the Daz environment. Downside would be, unless the new version supports importing info from the standalone, you'd have to redo your mats. For the Alembic, I would say trying it out would be your best bet. It may, in fact, meet all of your needs, and if not, just return it and wait for feedback on the updated plugin, if you want.

Best of luck with the project.

[wackymidget]

This thread does discuss the Alembic export with Octane, you may want to inquire about their experiences. I personally don't have it, so I cannot comment on it. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/35689/P60

Good luck!

[kraken]

I got the alembic exporter for Daz3D. It works pretty good. All the geometry and motion is there (Haven't checked lights, materials, or cameras...one thing at a time). I see the timeline and can scrub thought the motion...looks great, there is even blur on the part (not sure if its camera or motion, regardless looks nice). Here's the problem...and its a big one.
I can't seem to find any information or buttons to output the animation. Don't tell me I have to manually render each frame and save them. That would be stupid.

Anyone know how to render a sequence in the stand-alone version?

-------------- Update ----------------------

I found it. It is in the script menu labeled "Render Imported Animation"

Looks good. Going to test importing lights, camera, and materials.

[kraken]

I noticed there is a new version of octane (2.0.6) and the alembic import now has options instead of just a file select.
Does this mean the plug-in is complete for Daz3D?

Daz3d alembic exporter does not support camera information.