Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby face_off » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:36 am

face_off Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:36 am
when i was referring to "instances" in archicad i was thinking if there is a way for octane to interpret identical objects as "instances" for example i used archicad for a stadium project and had about 56k chairs and 10k toilets :lol: (a total nightmare), they were the same objects with the same name, and i was thinking there is a way to treat objects with similar names as instances.

if it is a dumb idea i`m sorry :oops:

Ah, OK. If you check out the Poser plugin instancing implementation, you'll see you can add 1 chair to the scene, and instance it 56k times. However it uses a scattering (random) system. You would want an ordered distribution. Without getting into the details, you create a "Transform" file - probably using one of the spreadsheets that was made available in these forums, and the transforms would have the 56k positions, rotations and scales of the chairs. If they are all facing the same way it would be very easy to setup a macro to do this. You might needs some maths to rotate tem. Then you load 1 chair into the ArhciCAD scene, convert the mesh to a "scatter" node and load the transform.

So yes, this will be possible, but might not be in the first release.

Paul
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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby tubel » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:29 am

tubel Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:29 am
oh. i know there are more important things to solve for the first release. and the second and the third :)
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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby face_off » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:32 pm

face_off Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:32 pm
An update on progress has been posted....


I have started a separate Facebook page for this plugin - so pls "Like" http://www.facebook.com/pages/Octanerender-for-Archicad/323683251070182 in order to get progress updates.

Paul
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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby rappet » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:30 am

rappet Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:30 am
face_off wrote:
I hope this helps

I does - thank you. The two viable options are 1) load a tree into the Archicad scene, and then instance it in Octane 100 times (have you seen the instancing tools I wrote for Poser?), or 2) load a dummy (null) object into the ArchiCAD scene (simple sphere for example), which will act as a placeholder for an external obj file. I'll need to check the ArchiCAD API, but I think it would be possible to link the obj filename, rotation and size to the null objects attributes, so you could move the object around the ArchiCAD scene, and the full geometry would move around the Octane scene.

Thanks fro your input.

Paul


Both options would be great workflows. Can you explain the first one?
Can you have a scene in Archicad with different objects, and then instance just one of the used objects in OR within the same scene? I managed to do some scattering using an excell matrix (Tried this when experimenting with the Sketchup plugin)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22581&p=100608&hilit=rappet#p100608
Will it be an easier or different workflow to do that or about the same?

The second workflow with the null object would be awsome!
That way the Archicad scene will be smoothly to work with not having the highpoly trees for instance.
My guess is a lot of Archicad users have external libraries like Artlantis users. And with this workflow it will be easy to use Artlantis (or other library objects like Google Sketchup models) trees and other objects by transforming them to obj's
and replace the null objects from the Archicad scene. Yes!

I am looking forward to be able and make OR animations using the Archicad flythrough :P
That will be possible, yes :?: that would be aaaaawsome!

Another thing on my mind is this:
It would so magnifique when it will be possible to export the Archicad flythrough (!) as a textfile to be able and run the cmd.
(as reference you can look at the Skectup plugin/exporter thread I was trying to make animation possible by using Sketchup viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22508&p=100536#p100536 )
Then it will be possible to combine the Archicad scene obj within another ocs: sometimes it might be easier to make the nodestructure with scattering csv files i.e. or materialising in the OR standalone and then use the camerapath made in Archicad for rendering animation.
I hope this makes sense.

Greetz,

Triple 2080ti & Quad 1080ti
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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby face_off » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:52 pm

face_off Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:52 pm
Hi Rappet

The first goal of the plugin is to provide a robust, stable, easy to use tool for users to access all OctaneRender functions within and on their ArchiCAD scene. However, with all plugins, there are constraints placed by the host app, which mean some features of OR Standalone cannot be done. For example, there is no visual node graph GUI facility in ArchiCAD, so the plugging of nodes into each other will be done as a tree, which means you cannot plug one node into multiple nodes, but you can copy/paste/import/export entire node trees.

Both options would be great workflows. Can you explain the first one?
Can you have a scene in Archicad with different objects, and then instance just one of the used objects in OR within the same scene? I managed to do some scattering using an excell matrix (Tried this when experimenting with the Sketchup plugin)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22581&p=100608&hilit=rappet#p100608
Will it be an easier or different workflow to do that or about the same?

Within the scope of the plugin described above, is "instancing" within the scope of the plugin? Absolutely. However OR Standalone simply allows you to enter (load) a sequence of transforms into a specific mesh - it does not actually generate the transforms for you. The loading of the transforms will be supported in the ArchiCAD plugin. At the moment, the geometry for each scene element is plugged into a "position" node, which is plugged into a "scatter" node (with a single unit matrix transform) which is plugged into the "geometry" node. So you will be able to move each element (via the "position" node), and load a CSV file of transforms (via the "scatter" node). I am not sure yet whether you will move the element or load the transforms from within the plugin setup dialog, or via the element Selection Settings dialog.

Within the scope of the plugin described above, is generating the instance transforms within the scope of the plugin? It's not scope. However, with the Poser plugin it was provided (see http://poserphysics.blogspot.com/2012/11/instancing.html and https://vimeo.com/54438243. So it is doable in the ArchiCAD plugin - but not would not be in the first release.

The second workflow with the null object would be awsome!
That way the Archicad scene will be smoothly to work with not having the highpoly trees for instance.
My guess is a lot of Archicad users have external libraries like Artlantis users. And with this workflow it will be easy to use Artlantis (or other library objects like Google Sketchup models) trees and other objects by transforming them to obj's
and replace the null objects from the Archicad scene. Yes!

Whilst this functionality is outside the scope of the core plugin functionality, I think this will be a great feature. However OBJ will likely be the only format supported - and I wonder if Artlantis users will tire of exporting their objects to OBJ for importing into the plugin. This feature also adds an additional layer of complexity to the saving of materials in the scene....and will the imported OBJ use ArchiCAD materials, or the MTL material? There is a possibility of an imported OBJ having a material name the same as an ArchiCAD material, which will need to be handled by the plugin. So I suspect this feature will not make the initial release of the plugin but will be added shortly after.

It would so magnifique when it will be possible to export the Archicad flythrough (!) as a textfile to be able and run the cmd.
(as reference you can look at the Skectup plugin/exporter thread I was trying to make animation possible by using Sketchup viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22508&p=100536#p100536 )
Then it will be possible to combine the Archicad scene obj within another ocs: sometimes it might be easier to make the nodestructure with scattering csv files i.e. or materialising in the OR standalone and then use the camerapath made in Archicad for rendering animation.
I hope this makes sense.

I think this is going to be outside the scope of the core functionality plugin. Is clicking the "Load scattering file" from ArchiCAD really going to be more difficult to do than clicking the same button in OR Standalone? Once you get used to setting up materials in the ArchiCAD plugin, I doubt you would want to go back to OR standalone.

Thanks for your feedback - keep it coming - the more I hear from people, the closer the plugin will be to meeting their expectations.

Paul
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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby rappet » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:50 pm

rappet Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:50 pm
Hi Paul,
Thanx for your quick response.. Cannot wait to get my hands on it... Really exciting!
Impressive what you showed in the Poser plugin with scattering and stuff!
One thing for now I am not sure about: will we be able to make OR animation (rendering sequence) by the flythrough in Archicad?
I think the null object is very very very important tool to work with... Because Archicad is really hard to handle with a lot of highpoly trees, cars, humans and more. The Archicad library is very limited compared to Artlantis or Sketchup. And it is hard to get good highpoly objetcs into Archicad compared to the others. For instance Artlantis can open 3ds, skp, dwg and more. Archicad not. Yes, it can import skp, but to my experience the 3d scene is getting really heavy... Too heavy.
And to answer your question... I don' t know about other Artlantis users, but I will be glad to transform my library objects to obj formout Artlantis to be able and use them in OR. I am doing that now as well. Not all my objects, but just when I need one dor my OR scene. And it is not that much pain to do. To make a good render in OR is worth spending some time in getting the objects needed. It is worth it. ( almost sounds like a commercial , doesn't it?).
Maybe other users can let you know what they think about it..

Anyway... Great work you are doing. So glad you are working on this Archicad workflow :P :mrgreen: :D

Greetz,

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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby face_off » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:05 pm

face_off Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:05 pm
One thing for now I am not sure about: will we be able to make OR animation (rendering sequence) by the flythrough in Archicad?

Yes. The way this works is that you access the Octane settings and viewport via the general ArchiCAD menu. Behind the scenes, if you have OctaneRender assigned as the photorenderer, the plugin will keep a skeleton node setup of the scene you are working on in memory (not the geometry though). Then if you want to do a photo render, sun study or flythrough ArchiCAD will activate the ArchiCAD rendering module, and the Octane plugin component will load the geometry from the scene into Octane, assign the materials, set the sun position, set the camera position and start rendering (up to the maxsmaples set in the settings window). So in summary, there is only one copy of the scene loaded into Octane (and one copy of the material nodes), but that one version is accessed from the various rendering points in ArchiCAD - so it is very efficient, robust and fast!

I will be glad to transform my library objects to obj formout Artlantis to be able and use them in OR. I am doing that now as well. Not all my objects, but just when I need one dor my OR scene. And it is not that much pain to do. To make a good render in OR is worth spending some time in getting the objects needed. It is worth it. ( almost sounds like a commercial , doesn't it?).

Good to know - thank you.

Paul
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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby rappet » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:39 pm

rappet Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:39 pm
face_off wrote:
One thing for now I am not sure about: will we be able to make OR animation (rendering sequence) by the flythrough in Archicad?

Yes. The way this works is that you access the Octane settings and viewport via the general ArchiCAD menu. Behind the scenes, if you have OctaneRender assigned as the photorenderer, the plugin will keep a skeleton node setup of the scene you are working on in memory (not the geometry though). Then if you want to do a photo render, sun study or flythrough ArchiCAD will activate the ArchiCAD rendering module, and the Octane plugin component will load the geometry from the scene into Octane, assign the materials, set the sun position, set the camera position and start rendering (up to the maxsmaples set in the settings window). So in summary, there is only one copy of the scene loaded into Octane (and one copy of the material nodes), but that one version is accessed from the various rendering points in ArchiCAD - so it is very efficient, robust and fast!
Paul


This is great! Really great!

I am trying to find out if it is possible to add highpoly objects (mainly trees) to the scene. You explain that the geometry will be loaded into the Octane scene. Is it possible to change the skeleton nodes in Octane apart from the Archicad while it is open or closed. That would a great workaround, because then the geometry node(s) from the Archicad scene can be combined with other 'external' geometry nodes.
This might be a nice workflow:
1. Modelling the scene in Archicad
2. Open the plugin and make material settings, lights and more
3. Save the ocs, and close Archicad (if necessary)
4. open ocs in Octane (immediately or the day after :-)
and add some nice highpoly stuff grouped with the Archicad geometry obj(s)
5. Close ocs, open Archicad with the plugin and with the renewed ocs

This way it could be a workaround as long as there are no null objects, but this workflow would be very very handy anyway, because this way other nice things can be done or be done easier, like instancing using 'homemade' excell sheets with the scatternode, or other object setups with a little help from other scripts, software or otherwise and then combine in the ocs with the Archicad plugin!

Greetz,

Triple 2080ti & Quad 1080ti
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Re: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby face_off » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:33 am

face_off Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:33 am
This might be a nice workflow:

I think the workflow wil be easier than that.

Saving from any plugin to OCS brings up issues, because the OCS does not contain the OBJ, so loading the OCS into OR Standalone might be very time consuming for you loading the OBJ and then plugging in all the materials. If you really really want to save to OCS from a plugin, pls let Otoy know, because it requires some changes to the OctaneRender API. Keep in mind that export to OCS is the most common feature request BEFORE a plugin is released, and once people start using the plugin, it's the least common feature request :-)

Instead, the user will load a proxy object (will be supplied with the plugin) into tha ArchiCAD scene, then right click and click Selection Settings, and there will be a drop-down category with a button to load the OBJ file in that dialog screen. That way the OBJ file link will be maintained when you save the project. Similarly, that same screen would allow the loading of a transform CSV.

OR

User loads the proxy object, then starts the plugin, selects the proxy object, and the plugin will popup buttons to assign a geometry file (or transform CSV).

Not sure which is easier yet - the secondly neatly ties all OctaneRender functionality into one setup screen. But neither method makes it obvious which proxy objects actually have OBJ files assigned to them.

The other consideration is that whilst all the beta testers will be highly proficient in OctaneRender Standalone, and understand the node types and concepts, the final plugin may generally be used by less Octane-savy users. So it needs to very easy to use - so the adding of OBJ geometry has to be intuitive and not require a degree in computer science to do :-)

Paul
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Re: NEW: Preview of OctaneRender for ArchiCAD

Postby RayTracey » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:50 am

RayTracey Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:50 am
The closed beta test of the ArchiCAD plug-in has produced some fantastic renders so far, such as these created by rappet:

Tapperworks-testrender-04 (1).jpg
Tapperworks_Testrender.jpg
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