Graphics Cards -- used market?

[johnb4467]

Hi everyone,

I've been using Octane for a bit now; haven't dug deeply in, but am thoroughly enjoying 3D...which used to intimidate me (due to extreme render times!).
When I first bought Octane, I bought an Nvidia 560 448 core graphics card, with the intent of slowly adding in more cards as funds permitted. I soon after purchased a second 560-448, but then realized a problem (confirmed here on the forum): since they use 'custom' (non-stock) open-air cooling solutions, they can't be in adjacent slots. This has been an issue, as I can no longer expand my rig beyond two cards...where I'd really like to at least get 3 in there (since there is physical room & ample power).
I've almost sold the two MSI Twin Frozer III 560-448 cards, but I'm not sure how they perform compared to what I would try and replace them with -- gtx 480's, in which stock-cooling would allow me to install 3.

Would 3 x 480's be a significant step up from 2 x 560-448 core cards?

The 480's are selling for around $160 on ebay, etc these days, so I've thought about trying to round some up over time. I actually have a second rig that I can put them in -- another system with a motherboard that supports 3 graphics cards, etc...that way I could have two rendering rigs, potentially. They both have hefty 1250w power supplies by reputable companies.

Anyway, I suppose this is a two part question:
1) Is 3 x gtx 480's going to be notably faster than 2 x 560-448's?
2) Is the current 'used' price for 480's (approx $150-170) considered good for the performance I'd get in octane?
2b (squeeze one last one in!): There is always the option of "buying more expensive" and then upgrading from there...though that would be considerably more expensive. I see a number of people talking about the gtx 570's, but those are a minimum of ~$250, it seems. The 480's, on the other hand, seem to not be horribly slower, but can be had for a much lower price (used), and much more gradually.
Just seeing what is considered the (overall) best route to take; have been troubled / curious about this for quite a while -- so thank you for chiming in!

John

[johnb4467]

Anyone have any advice to offer?
Just trying to get this question answered without having to re-post.

Thank you!

[acc24ex]

Anyone have any advice to offer?
Just trying to get this question answered without having to re-post.

Thank you!

I actually answered and it was lost somewhere..

480 is too damn hot, so keep that in mind, the hottest card in that ever produced, too much power consumption..
but it has a good power output, two 480s run at the same speed as a 590 (has lowered frequencies)

I had the same issues like you did, so I went the expensive way and eventually bought WS asus board (7 pcie slots) two 580s and 590, and 480 is in another desktop..
So in order to stop having problems cash out and stop worrying about performance, I would reccomend to wait out what kepler has to say, hopefully..
if not, get 3x590gtx and stop worrying about performance for the next year or more so
The subjective feel of going from a 480 to 4 gpus, wasnt that much of a feelnig like it is blazing speed, but thats mostly cause you get used to it pretty quickly, so now when I realize I can either try and put 7 580cards - I just concentrate on the rendering and thats it.. I guess 4 gpus with about 2000 cores in total, is just cozy, doesnt feel like the speed of lighting, although for simpler projects you can pump those renders in under a minute in extra high resolutions.. that's nice
i guess 480s are hard to sell for a reason, that is why they are cheap - but consider how much overheating those cards handled, mine got stuffed with dust and clogged up, and it was running like that for months - even after cleaning it up installing in another desktop there were problems since it overheated and shut down the computer - until another fan was placed
.. the 560 card is maybe 25% slower than 480 - its not that much a difference, dont expect miracle speeds, interiors will still take many hours to clear up
the choice is yours, I couldnt recommend 480 to anyone because it is the probably the worst graphic card coming from nvidia (the most powerful at its time, and the impossible hot temps make it the worst product ever)
but, on the other hand, I might look into it as well, if I come accross and option for an external PCIE box, and rig it up with two PSUs and fill it up with 6 fans running at full speeds..
just saying, it looks nice on paper, but its a lot more trouble setting up more cards (sometimes theres a connection error on one of the cards and the PC wont start until I pull all the cards out and shuffle them and than back in)
and keep in mind to have a very good solution to overheating, and you would need a bigger psu, or connect another one
I think it would be impossible to keep three of 480s in a closed PC case
still, I have tested the 480 vs 590, and the conclusion is pretty much 2x480=590.. (since 590 is underclocked 2x580) at the expense of heat dissipation, tried selling mine but no offers from people around me

[johnb4467]

Anyone have any advice to offer?
Just trying to get this question answered without having to re-post.

Thank you!

I actually answered and it was lost somewhere..

480 is too damn hot, so keep that in mind, the hottest card in that ever produced, too much power consumption..
but it has a good power output, two 480s run at the same speed as a 590 (has lowered frequencies)

I had the same issues like you did, so I went the expensive way and eventually bought WS asus board (7 pcie slots) two 580s and 590, and 480 is in another desktop..
So in order to stop having problems cash out and stop worrying about performance, I would reccomend to wait out what kepler has to say, hopefully..
if not, get 3x590gtx and stop worrying about performance for the next year or more so
The subjective feel of going from a 480 to 4 gpus, wasnt that much of a feelnig like it is blazing speed, but thats mostly cause you get used to it pretty quickly, so now when I realize I can either try and put 7 580cards - I just concentrate on the rendering and thats it.. I guess 4 gpus with about 2000 cores in total, is just cozy, doesnt feel like the speed of lighting, although for simpler projects you can pump those renders in under a minute in extra high resolutions.. that's nice
i guess 480s are hard to sell for a reason, that is why they are cheap - but consider how much overheating those cards handled, mine got stuffed with dust and clogged up, and it was running like that for months - even after cleaning it up installing in another desktop there were problems since it overheated and shut down the computer - until another fan was placed
.. the 560 card is maybe 25% slower than 480 - its not that much a difference, dont expect miracle speeds, interiors will still take many hours to clear up
the choice is yours, I couldnt recommend 480 to anyone because it is the probably the worst graphic card coming from nvidia (the most powerful at its time, and the impossible hot temps make it the worst product ever)
but, on the other hand, I might look into it as well, if I come accross and option for an external PCIE box, and rig it up with two PSUs and fill it up with 6 fans running at full speeds..
just saying, it looks nice on paper, but its a lot more trouble setting up more cards (sometimes theres a connection error on one of the cards and the PC wont start until I pull all the cards out and shuffle them and than back in)
and keep in mind to have a very good solution to overheating, and you would need a bigger psu, or connect another one
I think it would be impossible to keep three of 480s in a closed PC case
still, I have tested the 480 vs 590, and the conclusion is pretty much 2x480=590.. (since 590 is underclocked 2x580) at the expense of heat dissipation, tried selling mine but no offers from people around me

Hi there -- and thank you for taking the time to reply not once -- but TWICE!

Your feedback was exactly the type of feedback I was looking for: someone who has owned a 480 and can report from personal experience. I've read about the heat & power issues, and that did concern me regarding long renders (whereas games, for others, wouldn't max out like Octane would) -- so it was interesting to hear these concerns voiced by you (and others).

Ironically...I think we have the same motherboard: an Asus P7P55 WS (Workstation "SuperComputer")? Funny that the board is actually made for one quaddro and then a bunch of tesla cards -- too bad I'm not rich! (not that the tesla's would be overly useful for octane anyway though)

If I could fit in just one more render-quality video card into my rig, I'd be happy -- but then again, you're right...I can just be happy with what I have for now. These cards do run cool & power efficient, and hopefully some good cards will be refined with the newer architecture / drivers. Only downside, anything remotely new is going to be pretty pricey, whereas the draw for the 480's was the low price...
...but like you pointed out -- likely for good reason.

Thank you again for your responses. I'll keep an eye out for the cards you mentioned, but from what I can see -- they're pretty high in price right now.

Cheers!

John

[acc24ex]

bottom line, setting 4x 480gtx sounds like a pretty good rig.. that runs slower for 5-10% than my current rig - thats a nice and cozy setup, if you can keep the temperature down and feed it enough power..