Rendering Layer IDs

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Rendering Layer IDs

Postby k.a.schubert » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:48 am

k.a.schubert Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:48 am
Hey everybody,
since there was some confusion with rendering Layer IDs, here is a short howto:

Attribute Editor
Step 1: Make sure your objects geometry type is something different from "Global". So it can be "Scatter", "Movable proxy" or "Reshapable proxy".

OctaneGeometryType.png


OctaneRender Settings
Step 2: Check "Render Layer ID" in the "info passes" tab, to actually render the Render layer IDs.
Step 3: Then select them as a preview pass to display.
Step 4: Finally, make sure Render layers are enabled.

Now all layers are rendered and changing "Active Layer ID" does not change that, like usually.

RenderLayerSettings.png


Result:
RenderLayerIDResult.png
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby calus » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:32 am

calus Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:32 am
"make sure Render layers are enabled" : this is what make it confusing and look like a bug.
Because in Octane render standalone, Render layers don't have to be enabled to output a correct layer ID pass.
And that's the way it should be in octane for Maya too: if your beauty pass only contain one render layer , a layer ID pass is useless obviously.

Hopefully this will be corrected.
In the meantime, the trick to render a useful render layer id pass/beauty pass is to select an empty render layer and inverse it:
renderlayer.jpg
renderlayer.jpg (5.43 KiB) Viewed 11625 times



Otherwise for a layerID pass only, a simpler way is to use the Info kernel :
InfoChannel.jpg
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby k.a.schubert » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:09 pm

k.a.schubert Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:09 pm
calus wrote:"make sure Render layers are enabled" : this is what make it confusing and look like a bug.
Because in Octane render standalone, Render layers don't have to be enabled to output a correct layer ID pass.
And that's the way it should be in octane for Maya too: if your beauty pass only contain one render layer , a layer ID pass is useless obviously.

Hopefully this will be corrected.
In the meantime, the trick to render a useful render layer id pass/beauty pass is to select an empty render layer and inverse it:
renderlayer.jpg



Otherwise for a layerID pass only, a simpler way is to use the Info kernel :
InfoChannel.jpg


Agreed on the usability issue. One of the things to improve for sure!
It is my aim to bring the plugin as close to the standalone as possible, as I already could do with the render passes UI.

I tested it again and it does not matter which layer ID is active, when rendering a render layer pass. All render layers are included there.

Using the info kernel is another option! ;)

Please tell, if I miss something,
Kai
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby prodviz » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:11 pm

prodviz Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:11 pm
Thanks for the info. Great stuff.
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby calus » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:41 pm

calus Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:41 pm
"I tested it again and it does not matter which layer ID is active, when rendering a render layer pass. All render layers are included there. "

Yes for sure every render layer is included in the render layer ID pass watever layer is selected, but not in the beauty passes !!!
A render layer ID pass is only usefull with a complete beauty pass not a beauty pass of only one layer, that's the purpose of my TIP (select a empty layer ID + enable "invert" option) it give you at the same time a complete beauty pass and a complete layer ID pass.
But when it will work like in standalone (no need to enable render layer) we won't need this TIP anymore obviously.
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby k.a.schubert » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:11 pm

k.a.schubert Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:11 pm
calus wrote:"I tested it again and it does not matter which layer ID is active, when rendering a render layer pass. All render layers are included there. "

Yes for sure every render layer is included in the render layer ID pass watever layer is selected, but not in the beauty passes !!!
A render layer ID pass is only usefull with a complete beauty pass not a beauty pass of only one layer, that's the purpose of my TIP (select a empty layer ID + enable "invert" option) it give you at the same time a complete beauty pass and a complete layer ID pass.
But when it will work like in standalone (no need to enable render layer) we won't need this TIP anymore obviously.


Thanks for the clarification! Makes obviously sense! XD
I'll see what I can do about that checkbox that gives us trouble!
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby Jolbertoquini » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:09 pm

Jolbertoquini Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:09 pm
k.a.schubert wrote:
calus wrote:"I tested it again and it does not matter which layer ID is active, when rendering a render layer pass. All render layers are included there. "

Yes for sure every render layer is included in the render layer ID pass watever layer is selected, but not in the beauty passes !!!
A render layer ID pass is only usefull with a complete beauty pass not a beauty pass of only one layer, that's the purpose of my TIP (select a empty layer ID + enable "invert" option) it give you at the same time a complete beauty pass and a complete layer ID pass.
But when it will work like in standalone (no need to enable render layer) we won't need this TIP anymore obviously.


Thanks for the clarification! Makes obviously sense! XD
I'll see what I can do about that checkbox that gives us trouble!


Well is good but then is come other troubles...Look this post I did for the guys at the standalone if you are use ID you need a coverage pass and Octane is not able to provide then cause of the way Octane sampling. here the post...https://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=50487&p=251196&hilit=coverage+id#p251196

I finish to use id from MentalRay and the coverage pass I just try to match a bit the sampling (quite hard) and then I can use Nuke to extract perfect the alphas. of any ID.

Just to add Coverage pass is something a lot companies use in the industry with ID maybe different system aswell today with the DEEP pass example "Cinesite" use a ID with Coverage pass and they use Arnold as render engine and monte carlo type aswell so somehow is possible...with different method.
I still think this method for ID is work only for quick fix but still hard to make work perfect.
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby prodviz » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:25 pm

prodviz Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:25 pm
I like the look of this, for creating mattes too:

https://www.facebook.com/38689510140878 ... =3&theater
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby Jolbertoquini » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:28 pm

Jolbertoquini Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:28 pm
prodviz wrote:I like the look of this, for creating mattes too:

https://www.facebook.com/38689510140878 ... =3&theater


yes we do that way before add emission texture without cast illumination and etc... but is not the great when we need a lot of mattes the best way stay the coverage pass provide any colour ID so create any mask with a perfect liaising need create only a Photoshop script or a Nuke on may case and then with 2 renders all ID included, and gives a free choice for compositors...we are still using from MentalRay but yes we prefer have included at Octane of course.
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Re: Rendering Layer IDs

Postby prodviz » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:13 pm

prodviz Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:13 pm
Cool.

Do you have a Photoshop script for selecting any colour ID?

Cheers
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