OcDS 2.1 PRE RELEASE 5th

[Squirtle]

Where does this idea that DAZ doesn't like Octane come from? I'm pretty sure that is complete BS.
Iray might be competition for Octane, but Octane is in no way competion for DAZ. I'm pretty sure DAZ actually loves any additional renderer for DS.
Additional renderers don't compete with DS (DS is free), they add value to DS.

As for having a product rejected, there can be plenty of reasons for that, but punishment is not one of them (unless he/she was caught breaking NDA of course).

The logic behind DAZ wanting to steer customers towards Iray and away from Octane is that people who buy content from DAZ have limited budgets. If a person spends $500 of their 3D hobby budget on Octane licenses, that is $500 that DAZ would prefer you spend in the DAZ store.

Speaking of TRRazor and his product being rejected from the DAZ store as punishment for bad-mouthing DAZ, here is the relevant quote from TRRazor on March 13th:

Just wanted to let you guys know that DAZ3D is actually closely monitoring these and probably other Octane-related boards.
The post I made two pages earlier (where I back t_3s position) and go on and talk a bit about my "experiences" in regard to their ways of "communicating" with customers?

Received an apology the same day I made that post via e-Mail but also got one of our products refused as well, which was in their reviewing-pipeline for about a week now.
I guess they feel the pressure and I think Octane was and probably always will be their target when it comes to achieving quality and speed.

Sorry for off-topic - carry on

Whether that is actually why his product was rejected, or he was just being paranoid is irrelevant though. He thought there was a connection between his talk on these boards and the rejection of his product from DAZ, and he suddenly went from very frequent posting and promotion of his redspec Octane shaders to near complete silence a month ago. That's why my guess is he's trying to get a redspec for Iray product approved by DAZ and doesn't want to irritate DAZ by coming here and promoting what would literally be a rival product.

It's just my guess though, and the only reason I'm thinking about it is because it relates to people saying they wish they had a Redspec shader for Iray. Releasing Redspec shaders for Iray would be the most obvious choice for TRRazor to do. He's built a strong brand name among DAZ enthusiasts, and could really capitalize on it in the bigger Iray market.

[Elele]

If someone can afford 500$ for a render engine, my guess is it won't be too long before they have another 500$ to spend.
Octane is not a rival product... Well, at least no more than any other commercial product in the world
Half the PAs have complete other stores at actual rival sites, some of them even own rival sites (dreamlight, 3DU, ...)
and still they are welcome at DAZ. So I don't think anyone got punished, but to be honest I don't really understand the quote or what happened.

[Squirtle]

If someone can afford 500$ for a render engine, my guess is it won't be too long before they have another 500$ to spend.
Octane is not a rival product... Well, at least no more than any other commercial product in the world
Half the PAs have complete other stores at actual rival sites, some of them even own rival sites (dreamlight, 3DU, ...)
and still they are welcome at DAZ. So I don't think anyone got punished, but to be honest I don't really understand the quote or what happened.

I'm just pointing out that TRRazor has stated he believes DAZ withheld his product as punishment for something he did on these boards, and he suddenly stopped promoting Redspec for OcDS a month ago, leading up to the present - the optimal time for him to release Redspec for Iray (if and when DAZ approves it)... so these events might be connected.

I don't have an opinion on whether TRRazor was actually punished by DAZ or not, or whether DAZ would do such a thing. The relevant thing is that TRRazor thought this was a possibility, and it could explain his recent quiet on the Otoy boards if he wants to do everything he can to help get an Iray Redspec shader on the market right now before the DAZ store is flooded with competing skin shaders. Of course, maybe it's a coincidence and his silence could mean he just suddenly lost interest in talking about his shaders here. He might come in here to let me know I'm totally wrong. My bet is that he wants to tap into the Iray market immediately though.

I wouldn't be surprised if a number of vendors have skin shader products in the approval pipeline at DAZ at the moment, and DAZ has some strategy cooked up for scheduling the release of them. The current default skin shader is ok if properly tweaked, but looking at the DAZ galleries it is obvious that some vendors like Mec4D are getting much better results with their own custom shaders, none of which have hit the DAZ store yet (though of course they eventually will). There is just one (kinda lackluster and pointless looking) Iray skin shader product in the DAZ store at the moment.

[Spectralis]

Concerning iRAY content. Even though it would be great to have more content for OcDS I don't actually mind its conversion system. I think generally it does a pretty good job. And the materials tab is genius! It's just so easy to change materials, create new ones or just go back to the default materials at the click of a button. I just wish the OTOY community would share more of them. I don't think anyone's going to pay $500 for this excellent feature but it must be worth something?

If t_3 found a way to use iRAY materials in OcDS then that would open the way to exploiting all that content. But perhaps my limited understanding of these things means that's not possible.

[leblancd]

I think it's interesting/funny/sad how one of my posts, months ago, about iRay was moved to an "irrelevant" thread without warning or explanation.

Now, every other post in this forum is about iRay.
Are there just too many messages about iRay, here, to (re)move them, such that someone would notice and wonder why?

[asennov]

The whole 'DAZ Studio' subforum is slowly becoming 'irrelevant', so individual posts in single thread don't matter

[Goldorak]

Perhaps it's time to call out the higher-ups publicly? If no one at OTOY is even going to demonstrate caring, why not?

CEO Jules Urbach can be found on twitter at @JulesUrbach.
Co-Founder and CTO Malcom Taylor is @Malcolm3141.
Co-founder Alissa Grainger appears to not be on twitter, but here is an article she wrote for Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alissa-gr ... 19516.html
Perhaps we can make ourselves known the comments section?

Advisory Board:
Eric Schmidt @ericschmidt
Ari Emanuel @AriEmanuel
Brandon Eich @BrendanEich
George Gilder @mediarules2014 (maybe not?)

If I were on the advisory board, I'd want to know about this debacle, and then I'd want to remove myself from the board. At best, this is unprofessional. Pretty sure it's crossed the line of unethical, too.

Example tweets:
To CEO and CTO: "when are you guys going to release a finished OcDS plugin?" or "is anyone at OTOY going to help get the OcDS plugin released?"
To Advisory board: "Hey, @___________, why are you on the advisory board for a company @OTOY that hasn't delivered on promises to customers in over two years?" Or, "Did you know OTOY accepted money over a year ago for a product it still hasn't delivered?"

Anybody?

https://twitter.com/superultrago/status ... 4598583297

[hamer66]

Perhaps it's time to call out the higher-ups publicly? If no one at OTOY is even going to demonstrate caring, why not?

CEO Jules Urbach can be found on twitter at @JulesUrbach.
Co-Founder and CTO Malcom Taylor is @Malcolm3141.
Co-founder Alissa Grainger appears to not be on twitter, but here is an article she wrote for Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alissa-gr ... 19516.html
Perhaps we can make ourselves known the comments section?

Advisory Board:
Eric Schmidt @ericschmidt
Ari Emanuel @AriEmanuel
Brandon Eich @BrendanEich
George Gilder @mediarules2014 (maybe not?)

If I were on the advisory board, I'd want to know about this debacle, and then I'd want to remove myself from the board. At best, this is unprofessional. Pretty sure it's crossed the line of unethical, too.

Example tweets:
To CEO and CTO: "when are you guys going to release a finished OcDS plugin?" or "is anyone at OTOY going to help get the OcDS plugin released?"
To Advisory board: "Hey, @___________, why are you on the advisory board for a company @OTOY that hasn't delivered on promises to customers in over two years?" Or, "Did you know OTOY accepted money over a year ago for a product it still hasn't delivered?"

Anybody?

https://twitter.com/superultrago/status ... 4598583297

Thanks for posting, i do not use/follow twitter.

However, also the kind but urgent request, to make a more detailed post about the development state of OcDS and what we can expect!

I've been following the thread, and the only thing i'm seeing is a lot of speculation....that in my opionion is going nowhere and only adds to the frustration.

[Spectralis]

I honestly don't believe that discussing iRAY is detrimental to OcDS. On the contrary it keeps the forum going and we share info to improve our unbiased renders. I view it like discussing iClone/Vue/Poser or Lightwave on the DAZ forums. They are competing products but we use multiple tools and our discussions invariably reflect this. What I've learnt about OcDS I've applied to iRAY (e.g. emissive surfaces) and visa versa. If OcDS was up and running I doubt anyone would feel the need to be so defensive about iRAY. When OcDS is released we'll probably put iRAY away for awhile and explore the new plugin. Until then why not share more about unbiased rendering generally?

[hamer66]

I honestly don't believe that discussing iRAY is detrimental to OcDS. On the contrary it keeps the forum going and we share info to improve our unbiased renders. I view it like discussing iClone/Vue/Poser or Lightwave on the DAZ forums. They are competing products but we use multiple tools and our discussions invariably reflect this. What I've learnt about OcDS I've applied to iRAY (e.g. emissive surfaces) and visa versa. If OcDS was up and running I doubt anyone would feel the need to be so defensive about iRAY. When OcDS is released we'll probably put iRAY away for awhile and explore the new plugin. Until then why not share more about unbiased rendering generally?

Sorry maybe a bit unclear, i mostly mean the posts about the speculation in regard to the OcDS development and what is going on . The development of OcDS has been "difficult" even before the release of DS Iray

I see the Iray vs Octane discussion as a different discussion and agree that is a intresting discussion because they are competing products.