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[r10k]

I agree with David's sentiments, but I've said my bit. Good to see things got sorted out on this occasion.

[Lutze]

This whole thing is realy tearing me appart from within.

On very rare occasions you meet a company that is so devoted to its product, that has a unbelievable close connection to its userbase and that is so worth of our trust and money like Refractive Software . It is opposit of monsters like autodesk that give shit about us small users. So we think we can make the difference and turn away from the monster and sponsor the underdog, the white knight. This is the one side. Then there is this license policy that takes away my freedom. Its not about unstable internet connections, its about my basic right to work whenever and whereever I want. The freedom to work without anybody knowing that I do. I do not say that Refractive Software is doing this, but they could log and save when I work, for how long I work etc. This is driving me crazy. This whole cloud/internet/remote thing scares me because I give away my freedom and my life to somebody I dont know for nothing, for no real benefit. We are giving away, bit by bit, every information about us that exists and I think some users are unaware or just don´t care.

So as I said, this is tearing me appart from inside because I love Octane and I think the Reafractive Team is working their buts off to deliver a top product but for me they are on the dark side of the force with their license policy

May Octane live long and prosper (and may Refractive Software see the benefit of trusting its customers as the customers trust in the software).

Lutze

PS: According to the laws here in Germany and in most of the European Union when I buy a program I realy own it. I may resell it and I own the program itself, not only the license or the right to use it. This may be different in the US but not around here as far as I kwow.

[David]

According to the laws here in Germany and in most of the European Union when I buy a program I realy own it. I may resell it and I own the program itself, not only the license or the right to use it. This may be different in the US but not around here as far as I kwow

Yes, and more than that, there is law here in Europe that protect customers from things such as hidden defects, true also for new zeland where Radiance has its main office.

They did not have the right to change the terms of the licence like that till the final version was out. The fact that internet connexion requirement was not included in these terms is now apparented to a hidden defect (nowhere they spoke about a future such requirement).

Personaly I am very satisfied with Arion so it's not a major problem now, but I have lose 99 euros.

So while it is true that Octane was very cheap, was that a reason to treat customers like people that have nothing to complain ?

[matej]

I share some of your feelings about the internet connection requirement. Mainly that in some (rare, frankly) cases could impair production. I also share the moral question of being tied to the internet and thus less free...

but, and that's my personal opinion / experience, that probably most of you will not share: Octane gets me the so desired freedom in other aspects. While the vast majority of professional renderers snub the Linux platform or Blender, Octane supports both. So in the end, for me it's a question of being forced to use Windows (if the renderer doesn't support my platform) and possibly being forced to use Max/Maya (if the renderer doesn't export to Blender), or being forced to have internet connection. The later is waaaay less evil than the former.

Frankly I think that in 2010 (almost 2011) any software that is ignoring Linux, and any renderer that is ignoring Blender, is a snobby punk.

And you must ask yourselves if this internet connection requirement is really impairing your workflow, or is just a matter of principle. I don't doubt that Refractive will listen to our problems and act so that both parties will be satisfied - for example, better ways to finish rendering animations when your internet connection fails, etc. If the internet connection is needed for this software to success, then so be it, I can overcome this...

Just my 2 cents

[steveps3]

On very rare occasions you meet a company that is so devoted to its product, that has a unbelievable close connection to its userbase and that is so worth of our trust and money like Refractive Software .

Oh dear, they really do have you eating out of the palm of their hands. Don't be fooled. Refractive is a business. It is out to make money. If it can do this whilst producing a reasonable product (not really there yet) then all the better. If you think about it, they now have you over a barrel. When version 2 comes out, you decide not to update. Oh dear, you account is severed and you can't even use version 1 which you have paid for.

[matej]

When version 2 comes out, you decide not to update. Oh dear, you account is severed and you can't even use version 1 which you have paid for.

On what do you base this assumption? No company in their right mind would do that.

Small companies like Refractive can't afford to be such dicks. Maybe in a few years, when they become big and evil...

[David]

No company in their right mind would do that

No company have ever changed a licence agreement before the final version (which was promised) comes out. We will not see Octane in its final version 1 (The Octane I bought) since it has been replace by Octane LIVE which is based on internet connexion and this changes everything.

[matej]

No company have ever changed a licence agreement before the final version (which was promised) comes out. We will not see Octane in its final version 1 (The Octane I bought) since it has been replace by Octane LIVE which is based on internet connexion and this changes everything.

You have a point, but the question is if the need for internet connection is really causing you problems, or is this more a matter of principle. If Refractive would suddenly change their minds and drop support for Linux or Mac, now that would be a real kick in the nuts for buyers... but nowadays we all have internet connection everywhere, so I don't see this as an big issue.

Octane is a little baby right now, and piracy would hurt it a lot. It's not like products of big companies that costs like a small car and sell in hundreds of thousands of copies. Big companies even silently tolerate piracy, because thats how students and beginners hook up on their software - which they must then buy at some point. I rather have a product requiring internet connection, than not having a product at all.

[David]

but the question is if the need for internet connection is really causing you problems, or is this more a matter of principle

In my case as I have explained before, it is the fact that several days a year (up to 3 weeks) I don't have internet connexion following a simple lightning storm striking a relay, I live in a mountains, not in town where this is rapidly fixed.
I know I am not alone in that case.
It is of course a matter of principles but also of legality as I said earlier.

[Faizol]

Hi all,
Octane team is very responsive to the users suggestions. Give them some time to come out with a better licensing scheme. The team is trying very hard to deliver the best product (and protecting their intellectual properties) while providing good customer service (business growth and sustainability), which is not an easy task to do. What we the customers can do is to suggest a good example of anti piracy scheme use by other software which might be suited for Octane but without additional overhead cost to the customers.

May I suggest for the Octane team to take a look at 3d-coat's solution to protect their software? Andrew updates 3d-coat regularly with bugs fixing and features improvement (sometimes even 2-3 times per week). Usually every new update will close the previous loophole for cracking, so new cracks have to be created for the updates. It's probably impossible to close all the cracking loopholes, but the way Andrew "morphs" the security part of the software from one update to another helps to protect the software from piracy and to keep them at the minimum level. 3d-coat enables any local machines who do not have internet connection to be licensed, and will only connect if there's a connection, intermittently. Probably a few licensing schemes, like a license server for customers who bought Octane in volumes (so the customers can manage the license centrally, like Pixar's Renderman), and another scheme for individual license can be considered for Octane?

Just my 2 cents.

cheers,
Faizol