new visible Environment node -> wish

[calus]

If we can, we would like to avoid having 4 different environments and keep our original 2 environments. The key question is when to use which environment.

I should have answered this sooner but I thougt the V-cube description was clear enough.

The 3.03.3 implementaton is nice but limited to 2 environments at the same time.

Extreme use-case really needs to have as much as 4 different environments :
the main environment, a second environment to override reflection, a third environment to override refraction, and the fourth environment for backplate.

If the rational behind this implementation was to not add 2 more pins to the renderTarget node, why not add them to the environment node then?
I mean instead of a visible environment section in the environment node with the 3 Boolean attributes,
why not replace this section in the environment node, with an override section and 3 environments input (where we can plug other environment nodes) :
override background(backplate), override reflexion and override refraction.
With this solution we would not need anymore the visible environment pin in renderTarget node...



Another solution coud be to have a new intermediate node plugable in the visible environment with 3 different environment input for backplate, reflexion and refraction...

[funk]

I agree. This is nice, but it's still limited to 2 environments.

[Terryvfx]

After reading some of the comments I noticed that the developer is still a bit unclear on how exactly we are going to take advantage of this and since everyone is so technical about it allow me to rephrase a bit.

First I think having 4 slots it's overkill for example I could always place the back-plate in post with much more flexibility so maybe this one isn't as needed but that's just me.

At least 2 slots would be nice: a diffuse env slot to place a HDRI that it's blurred of much lower resolution to get even lighting free from fireflies, weird artifacts on small edges and that it's faster to calculate, then a reflec/refrac env slot to place a high res version of the HDRI that will gives us crisp detail in the spectacular parts of the scene.

Having the enviroment nodes visible would allow for some flexibly let's say we can place the two slot env nodes in the editor and use a single transform node to control the rotation of both maps also let's suppose we get a blur node in 3.1 with OSL we can then place a single HDRI use the blur node before putting it in the diffuse then take the same HDRI and put it straight into the reflec/refrac.

[calus]

@Terryvfx,
not sure you noticed this is already implemented in octane ,
look here at the Visible environment section:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=51679

env_implementation.png

The current implementation adds this "visible environment" section, to the environment node,
but it's only useful for the environment node plugged in the visible environment pin of the render target node.
If you check for example "reflection" and "refraction", Octane overrides reflection and refraction using this environment node instead of the one connected in the environment pin of the render target node:

env_implementation2.png

With the current implementation you can only use 2 different environments...


So I suggest to modify the current implementation:
- suppress the "visible environment pin" of render target node
- rename the "visible environment" section of environment node to "override environment"
- modify the 3 Boolean pin "backplate, reflection, refraction"
to become 3 environment pins where you can actually plug different environment nodes.

To use this modified implementation you would:
- override the first environment node with another environment connecting it to the override reflection pin, refraction pin and/or backplate pin.
(2 environment used same result as the current implementation)

new_implementation1.png

- or you could also connect 3 different environment nodes to each pin.
(so using as much as 4 different environments if needed)

new_implementation2.png

This modified implementation would not clutter anything, on the contrary it would actually unclutter the render target node from one pin, and make the reflexion, refraction and backplate pins actually useful.

[v-cube]

So I suggest to modify the current implementation:
- suppress the "visible environment pin" of render target node
- rename the "visible environment" section of environment node to "override environment"
- modify the 3 Boolean pin "backplate, reflection, refraction"
to become 3 environment pins where you can actually plug different environment nodes.

+1 from me, it would really be useful to have the option to define one individual environment for each slot.

@Terryvfx

First I think having 4 slots it's overkill for example I could always place the back-plate in post with much more flexibility so maybe this one isn't as needed but that's just me.

It might seem to be an overkill at first sight, but more often than you might think I find myself in a situation where I have a good lightning solution but the backplane is totally burned out so now with the new visible environment option I use the same hdr Image but powered down to 20 % of the original -> looks good! Than I am left with my reflections e.g. chrome used on chairs ... option one would be to use the original powered hdr, which would result in overburned areas again, option two would be to use the tuned down visible environment, but this would make them too dull.
So the best thing would be to have the option to use a map with some value in between like e.g. 50%...

best

Andreas

[Terryvfx]

@Calus

Oh! how silly of me for not noticing haha now that I think about it this feature was just added to the C4D plugin (literally yesterday), this is nice, now what you are suggesting it's even better also renaming it to "override" makes more sense.