Will we see motion blur for liquids in octane 3

3D Studio Max Plugin (Export Script Plugins developed by [gk] and KilaD; Integrated Plugin developed by Karba)
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JimStar
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mikinik
Testing releases threads are not for these discussions. They are for bugreports of current testing releases only, this is clearly stated in the rules there.
mikinik wrote:in what format is still possible to transmit information about motion vector data channel, except alembic?
This must be your area of knowledge as an experienced 3ds Max artist - about "where you can get the velocity channel data from into your 3ds Max scene geometry object". The rendering plugin just reads this standard data supplied by 3ds Max from the object's standard data channels. If you are able to fill in any additional channel by this data (to not use the one screwed up by 3ds Max) - I could unblock this feature in plugin's code, and you will be able to choose this channel as the one that supplies the velocity data for an object. I've implemented this feature in a plugin a long time ago, but it does not make sense before 3ds Max bug is fixed, so it is stubbed currently.

As I already explained on this forum many times before - 3ds Max has an obvious critical bug in its Alembic subsystem. If you are experienced enough to understand this - I can give some more technical details about it:
When I investigated it some time ago - I even digged into disassebling of some parts of non-Octane code to be sure this is a bug. 3ds Max' alembic subsystem is clearly screwing up the velocity channel in all frames after the very first one (I explained it in details in my previous posts in old release threads). The other channels are OK, only velocity channel is broken. And as the disassembling had shown - this happens somewhere deeply in 3ds Max' AlembicImporter subsystem: the complex non_topo_data data object (of type MeshDataInterpolated) filled in by this system has the full array of Vector3 values (representing velocities read from .abc file), but the flat array of float values stored in the same complex data object and representing the same data (just as a flat copy of the first one storing complex Vector3 objects) is screwed up when is filled in - so that these two arrays that must have absolutely the same data are already different on the stage of filling this data in from .abc file by 3ds Max' AlembicImporter subsystem. And exactly the second, screwed up array of float values is returned by this subsystem to the plugin as a "velocity channel data" (when a plugin calls something like UVVert *velocityMap = mesh->mapVerts(channelIndex);). So it's nothing to do with the plugin here. All I can do - just wait before Autodesk fixes this.

I've checked VRay too during all these invesigations, just in case. VRay's rendering engine works very differently in comparison to Octane's GPU rendering core, so you can't rely on the assumption that if VRay plugin does something then Octane plugin must be able to do it the same way. In this case - VRay is able to generate its own velocity channel data for meshes with non-static topology. And VRay writes this data on top of the broken velocity channel data after it was read (and broken during it) from .abc file.
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coilbook
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thanks
could you guys call Autodesk and tell them to fix it and/or work with autodesk team closely since otoy is a company and not much we can do about it. You said wait till they fix it. What if it will take them 5 years to fix it. it is hard to fix when they do even know there is a problem
mikinik
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JimStar, but you can at least fix your exporter from 3ds max to octane standalone? at the moment after exporting from 3ds max to octane standalone stops working vertex motion blur on alembic file in standalone.
coilbook, I do not understand the reason why otoy team up to this time has not done it. :(
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azen
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Hi,

The best time to resume work on this feature will be after the release of Octane 3. A lot of the restraints within which development happens will likely change considerably, given the overhaul for Octane.


Regarding the 3ds Max API issue, we cannot control the priority Autodesk chooses to place on resolving this issue. Also, it is highly likely that the overhaul on Octane 3 will bridge the gap between the certain architectural differences between MAX and Octane. This will be a lot clearer when Octane 3 is finalized. If we cannot reconcile this issue with Octane 3 alone, we will double down on our correspondence with Autodesk. We cannot make firm guarantees about the responsiveness of Autodesk, as they have many obligations of their own to attend to. We will resume correspondence in depth when Octane 3 is complete.
mikinik
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azen, last question. somebody from Otoy already talked with representatives of Autodesk on this issue? or is it just a promise?
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coilbook
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mikinik wrote:azen, last question. somebody from Otoy already talked with representatives of Autodesk on this issue? or is it just a promise?
i would like to know answer too
I actually emailed autodesk twice about API MB bug hopefully they read my email
mikinik
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coilbook wrote: I actually emailed autodesk twice about API MB bug hopefully they read my email
I think this should not engage users, because we just do not know or can not explain all the details of this error, or to answer additional questions if they are.
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coilbook
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mikinik wrote:
coilbook wrote: I actually emailed autodesk twice about API MB bug hopefully they read my email
I think this should not engage users, because we just do not know or can not explain all the details of this error, or to answer additional questions if they are.
I agree. Programming is hard art to understand
azen
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mikinik wrote:azen, last question. somebody from Otoy already talked with representatives of Autodesk on this issue? or is it just a promise?

Hi,

The issue, it seems at this point at least, is that:

1. It is an issue deep in the core of 3ds Max (any amount of tinkering, however small, is considered a huge risk for anything that isn't a critical fix or major update).
2. While this is a "bug" for us, it isn't necessarily a "bug for Autodesk developers - it is more a design choice for their developers that we, as third-party developers, need to work within as best we can.

Currently, the solution to this issue is to bridge this particular gap between Autodesk's design philosophy and our own.
mikinik
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I think this may not be a design decision of the developers, because if things are as you say, vertex motion blur won't work in all renderers.
You have not answered my question. But I think I understand you. It is sad.
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