Render Passes Discussion

Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:23 pm

Btw before people say its right to call it matte, Frank and I are discussing it in the context of lw.
In 3dmax I know its matte for standard and vray renderer

Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:42 pm

Like I said in the 2.10 thread -- In LW renderer, the identical function is Object Properties > Render > Alpha > Constant Black.

But we need the same in Standalone and all the other plugs...

I have a ton of work to bang out today... I will check in tonight if I can. Octane guys should be back at work in NZ by late this afternoon. Hopefully we can get somewhere on this - get this one in the bag, once and for all.. and put this behind us.

Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:49 pm

FrankPooleFloating wrote:Like I said in the 2.10 thread -- In LW renderer, the identical function is Object Properties > Render > Alpha > Constant Black.

But we need the same in Standalone and all the other plugs...

So it is about constant black(masking out everything in alpha except for specific elements) in lw, not about shadowdensity, matte naming issue.
We can continue lw issue here if you want so that its not confusing to non lw users and its terminology.
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=42629

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:03 pm

I've attached a file regarding obj,matt id and coverage info.
The file is rpf. This is much better because it has Coverage info. Cleaner masks afaik. It can be merged with exr. 3dmax, vue, etc have coverage info for aliazing issues in buffers.

With lw, if lw octane can have the ability to assign mat/obj ids manually because sometimes random assignment doesn't work. This objectid mask is not going to work.

Something like this to assign ids I use in 3dmax.

I don't know if its available in standalone and would trickle down to lightwave. But manual assignment would be nice.

Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:13 pm

geo_n wrote:
FrankPooleFloating wrote:Like I said in the 2.10 thread -- In LW renderer, the identical function is Object Properties > Render > Alpha > Constant Black.

But we need the same in Standalone and all the other plugs...
So it is about constant black(masking out everything in alpha except for specific elements) in lw, not about shadowdensity, matte naming issue.
We can continue lw issue here if you want so that its not confusing to non lw users and its terminology.
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=42629

No thanks. We can talk about it here. I just used that as an example of the functionality that many of us (but perhaps not you) are itching and scratching for. Once we have the ability to render surfaces (or objects) with zero alpha, at will, maybe Juanjo would be able to pop this feature into LW Object Properties menus - just like he did for Unseen by Camera. Octane team needs to add this feature in engine, before Juanjo can do anything in LW. So this is not a LW issue...

Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:20 pm

Right, I meant the passes. Is there detailed information somewhere about this for inexperienced Octane users like me? The standard manual is fairly useless to me, sadly, as it is not exactly explaining much.

Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:55 am

FrankPooleFloating wrote:geo_n, if you have never tried rendering with Matte feature, and mystified why the alpha had shadows in it, I don't know what to tell you... Many of us are working in completely different realms and have unique needs. But please just take my word for it that many have been asking for this, for about two years. You will surely have the option to not use it.

No I'm not mystified why shadows are in matte node in lw.
I don't know what to tell, learn other appz

its a general terminology
You're wrong to ask to rename this to shadowcatcher. Like i said you're confusing people with lightwave terminology. The name should stay the way it is to be consistent with octane standard terminology. Lw users just adapt to like I did.

FrankPooleFloating wrote: No thanks. We can talk about it here. I just used that as an example of the functionality that many of us (but perhaps not you) are itching and scratching for. Once we have the ability to render surfaces (or objects) with zero alpha, at will, maybe Juanjo would be able to pop this feature into LW Object Properties menus - just like he did for Unseen by Camera. Octane team needs to add this feature in engine, before Juanjo can do anything in LW. So this is not a LW issue...

For constant black in lw it is an obsolete implementation. I don't know again what to tell you. In lightwave there's no proper object and material id implementation and lw users are stuck using old technique, constant black, black and white masks.etc. To get rgb mask, the only workaround is dponts npfe. If you don't know it learn dponts plugins just take my word for its. It been available for years.

I'd rather not waste devs time on this constant black in lightwave. Better to implement proper obj/matt id tools and maybe it will trickle down to lightwave.

Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:11 am

Sorry this seems to have become confusing for you. I have full confidnce in Octane team to deliver the goods. Have a good one.

Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:18 am

FrankPooleFloating wrote:Sorry this seems to have become confusing for you. I have full confidnce in Octane team to deliver the goods. Have a good one.

Yes i've pmd Stratified because he is apparently confused with a lightwave request.
Juanjo has better understanding of lw tools and terminology and I've posted here
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 02#p204702

Regarding those balls.
With proper implementation of obj/mat id tools it is better way than constant black, constant value, legacy stuff implemented in lw.
This is very basic video with masking. Skip to 2:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpZr66d0g9U

Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:31 pm

99% of the time, I am saving out 32bit PNGs and popping into PS & AE comps. I (and others) want to be able to mask stuff at will and save out PNGs just as they appear in Octane with alpha enabled in RT. It is as simple as that. All of this other talk is just confusing the matter - and I am afraid that this request will just get lost in a sea of mumbo jumbo, again, like it did in beta, and we will still be without ability to mask things.......

When I was saying constant black, I was not hoping to save out a separate b/w alpha image or anything like that. I want a hole where my mask object/surface is in 32bit PNG. I really hope this is cleared up now.