Denoiser confusion Tweet

[Andreas_Resch]

I have to say the Blender addon is something to get used to. It's quite confusing overall.

Here's one of those things. When I check "Denoiser Beauty" in the render passes, the image is being denoised after rendering. However, the "Denoiser Beauty" pass is not saved alongside the other passes. However, when I check any other denoiser pass, those are written out. They are all black though. The "Denoiser Beauty" pass never seems to be written out. Even if I check the "Denoise" checkbox in the camera settings. What is written out, is the "Denoiser Beauty" pass that is created in the (Blender) Compositing node tree. It's not denoised though - no matter what I check.

Aside from the confusing behaviour. What do I have to check that the "Denoiser Beauty" pass is written out AND is denoised as well? Thanks for any advice.

[Andreas_Resch]

Well. It seems as if I have to check the "Denoiser" checkbox in the Preview panel so that the "Denoise Beauty" pass is written out in the final rendering. The "Denoiser" checkbox in the Camera section which is filed under "Render Mode" doesn't do anything. Somehow this is the wrong way around.
Also checking "Override" in my Preview panel affects the brightness of my passes written out in the (Blender) Compositor. Another thing that should not happen.

Maybe those things are fixed in the upcoming plugin version. Once it becomes available for free-tier users, I will check it again.

[J.C]

If you have Override selected in the Preview panel you will disable all Imager in all cameras in the scene. Make sure it is disabled if you want to use Imager on Camera object.

[Andreas_Resch]

Thanks for the information. That's not a great approach though, right? What do the "Preview" settings have to do with the final outcome of the renderings? Especially as there is a dedicated "Render Mode" section in the Camera panel. This has to lead to a plethora of misunderstandings. And this shows in the many comments along the lines of "Why does my preview look different than the final rendering?" comments so far. This needs to be addressed. The whole addon needs a bit of untangling. There are too many settings that are in bad places in the UI or that are dependent on other settings without having the user know why. I'm sure many users who want to give Octane a try will appreciate that.

[J.C]

I find this option very useful. Instead of selecting Camera and navigating to Octane camera options you have Imager options easily accessible directly in viewport.
If you want a specific settings for multiple cameras you just need to remember to disable this override.
Regarding the UI/UX issue I agree it can be confusing. It would be better to name this "Global Override" instead of preview because it's not a preview and can be used in final renders.

[Andreas_Resch]

Well. It might be easily accessible, but it's in the wrong location. And especially for a new user, this makes no sense. So here is what I might consider.

*) Move the "Denoiser" options (the one for final rendering) in the Render Properties panel. This makes the most sense and Blender users might search there initially.
*) Keep the "Denoiser" option for the Preview where it is now, but have it only affect the actual preview rendering. I personally have the viewport denoiser OFF most of the time for performance issues, but might have it on for production redering.
*) In the Camera section the "Denoiser" option could stay (in case a per-camera-level denoising should ever be needed). But it should be categorized as "Denoiser Override" to explicitly overrule the global denoiser setting from the Render Properties panel.
*) Deactivate the "Denoiser" passes section when the denoiser for final rendering is turned OFF (both globally or on an per-camera basis). It will signal to the user, that this isn't going to work and help with "alarming" the user to either turn the production denoiser ON or OFF.

That would be a good start.

And something similar should be considered for exposure override of the production rendering as well. None of the preview settings should inflict production outcomes. They have to be kept separate for clarity. If something production related has to be placed in the side-panel, it should be labeled as such and but in a separate sub-section.

[J.C]

Denoiser options must stay in Imager as it is how all plugins and Standalone have. It's better to have the same UI layout across all plugins and Standalone.That would be nice to have denoiser for preview and final render same as it is for Cycles, but this won't happen unless changes to the Octane core will be made. At the moment you can do it enabling denoiser directly in Camera object and disable it in preview with override enabled.

[Andreas_Resch]

You don't have to change the Octane core for that. It's about how the interpreter feeds the data to the render engine. The engine doesn't care if the checkbox is in one or another place in the UI.

I don't know how Octane works in combination with other apps or standalone, but if I check the Denoiser checkbox in the "Preview" dialog and it comes out denoised in the final rendering, even if the denoising is unckecked everywhere else, then it's a bit problematic everywhere. The same thing the other way around. If the final rendering is only denoised if I check the checkbox in the "Preview" section, that's an overall problem as well. This should be addressed on a higher level then.

But I guess in the end it's just a case of getting used to it. No matter if it makes sense or not. But new users will not be happy about it - I spent way too much time to find out the right combination of settings to get it to work. And I work in the business for a long time. So I might know it for now. But when I'm going to test the next release, I'll probably have to look it up again.

[linograndiotoy]

The option is very useful, actually, and it's just one of those things and Octane for Blender user should know, so to take advantage of it.
It's in the right place, imho. Maybe the simple "Override" string should be renamed to "Override Final Render Option", or something similar.

[J.C]

You don't have to change the Octane core for that. It's about how the interpreter feeds the data to the render engine. The engine doesn't care if the checkbox is in one or another place in the UI.

I don't know how Octane works in combination with other apps or standalone, but if I check the Denoiser checkbox in the "Preview" dialog and it comes out denoised in the final rendering, even if the denoising is unckecked everywhere else, then it's a bit problematic everywhere. The same thing the other way around. If the final rendering is only denoised if I check the checkbox in the "Preview" section, that's an overall problem as well. This should be addressed on a higher level then.

The issue or not with UI is that is is consistent across all plugins. Imagine you go between different apps with Octane and all have same options but scattered in different places. That would be confusing.

The issue in Blender is naming and as I mentioned earlier it should be renamed as this "preview" settings work also in final render, so better naming is necessary, not to mention better manual that describes those options.