Procedural maps broken in bump slot

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Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby senorpablo » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:12 pm

senorpablo Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:12 pm
Noise texture is broken in the bump map slot, possibly all procedural maps. I tested specular, diffuse and glossy materials, noise and saw wave maps, none of them work in the bump slot. RGB and Greyscale image maps work just fine. Version 4.01.1 - 6.12

See attached image. On the left are maps in the bump slot, on the right is the exact same map in diffuse to illustrate the mapping is working. The forward set is using a noise map, the back set of boxes is using greyscale image map.

Noise Maps Specular Material.jpg
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby paride4331 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:29 am

paride4331 Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:29 am
Hi senorpablo,
noise seems to works in 6.12 and 6.13, I hope I understand what you said.
Regards
Paride
Attachments
noise.jpg
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby senorpablo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:20 pm

senorpablo Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:20 pm
paride4331 wrote:Hi senorpablo,
noise seems to works in 6.12 and 6.13, I hope I understand what you said.
Regards
Paride


Thanks for your test.

Attached is a test scene in which it's broken for me. Tested it in 6.12 and 6.13.

I created another test scene with a very small scale(1 unit sphere) and it works fine. The scene above is considerably larger in scale. Maybe it has something to do with scale.
Attachments
Bump Test.zip
(239.33 KiB) Downloaded 100 times
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby paride4331 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:51 am

paride4331 Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:51 am
Hi senorpablo,
procedural textures works, but keep in mind that bumb has not "height value", it simulates micro reliefs so it difficult to see in larges object, you can see it increasing contrast.
Regards
Paride
Attachments
test.jpg
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby senorpablo » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:28 pm

senorpablo Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:28 pm
paride4331 wrote:Hi senorpablo,
procedural textures works, but keep in mind that bumb has not "height value", it simulates micro reliefs so it difficult to see in larges object, you can see it increasing contrast.
Regards
Paride


This doesn't really make sense to me. If you look at my test, the greyscale image map has about the same contrast as the procedural map(as shown in the diffuse slot). There is no issue seeing the image map as a bump on the large object.

I also tried sine and saw wave maps on the large map, and you get nothing.
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby paride4331 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:00 am

paride4331 Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:00 am
Hi senorpablo,
I made this test, the scene is around 300x300 mt.
As youy can see noise bump map works, but height doesn't encrease, rightly I think, using a bump map.
Using noise bump map in displacement you can edit height.
Said that I will ask to developers what they think about.
Regards
Paride
Attachments
05.jpg
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby senorpablo » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:42 pm

senorpablo Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:42 pm
paride4331 wrote:Hi senorpablo,
I made this test, the scene is around 300x300 mt.
As youy can see noise bump map works, but height doesn't encrease, rightly I think, using a bump map.
Using noise bump map in displacement you can edit height.
Said that I will ask to developers what they think about.
Regards
Paride


Here's another test to illustrate the point. I baked out the procedural map--that's the front row. The procedural map is the back row. You can see they match perfectly in the diffuse slot. You can see that the baked out image works as expected in the bump slot. The procedural map doesn't work as it should.

Octane procedural bump broken.jpg
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby neonZorglub » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:02 am

neonZorglub Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:02 am
senorpablo wrote:
paride4331 wrote:Hi senorpablo,
I made this test, the scene is around 300x300 mt.
As youy can see noise bump map works, but height doesn't encrease, rightly I think, using a bump map.
Using noise bump map in displacement you can edit height.
Said that I will ask to developers what they think about.
Regards
Paride


Here's another test to illustrate the point. I baked out the procedural map--that's the front row. The procedural map is the back row. You can see they match perfectly in the diffuse slot. You can see that the baked out image works as expected in the bump slot. The procedural map doesn't work as it should.

The attachment Octane procedural bump broken.jpg is no longer available


Hi senorpablo,

The noise works in the bump slot, but is barely visible in your scene.
It seems that with the scale 100 on the UVW transform, the output of the Noise texture need to be amplified. Here we inserted a Color correction that allows to have the bump effect visible:
BumpTest2.zip
(261.55 KiB) Downloaded 88 times

I hope that this will work for you.
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Re: Procedural maps broken in bump slot

Postby senorpablo » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:26 am

senorpablo Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:26 am
neonZorglub wrote:
senorpablo wrote:
paride4331 wrote:Hi senorpablo,
I made this test, the scene is around 300x300 mt.
As youy can see noise bump map works, but height doesn't encrease, rightly I think, using a bump map.
Using noise bump map in displacement you can edit height.
Said that I will ask to developers what they think about.
Regards
Paride


Here's another test to illustrate the point. I baked out the procedural map--that's the front row. The procedural map is the back row. You can see they match perfectly in the diffuse slot. You can see that the baked out image works as expected in the bump slot. The procedural map doesn't work as it should.

Octane procedural bump broken.jpg


Hi senorpablo,

The noise works in the bump slot, but is barely visible in your scene.
It seems that with the scale 100 on the UVW transform, the output of the Noise texture need to be amplified. Here we inserted a Color correction that allows to have the bump effect visible:
BumpTest2.zip

I hope that this will work for you.


Thanks for your reply. We can disagree that it "works." I found a work-around and shipped that scene some time ago, that's not really the point.

In my opinion, it doesn't work "correctly," or as people would expect it to work. There is no obvious or intuitive reason, from a users perspective, why a procedural map wouldn't behave consistent with it's diffuse output, or a similar bitmap image. I could spend some time trying to replicate the test in various other render plugins to see and demonstrate if my expectations and experience are incorrect or unrealistic. But, I've already spent considerably more time on this than I should have, in finding a work-around for my scene, and then subsequently making test cases for you guys.

I can't image that I'm the only person who has had, or will have this problem in the future. I believe addressing this issue would make Octane a better and more polished product.
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