instance pivot point problem

[mstewart152]

Anyone know why the wheels on the right Instanced car are in a different spot in Octane then in Lightwave viewport. THe wheels are on different layers, with pivot moved in modeler to wheel center... I have had this problem before, and to fix it I centered the object to the origin, and moved it in layout to correct place, and that does work.. but this will be extremely annoying for a Car Library. I have tried all coordinate options in instancer as well.. Parent, local, and world.

[juanjgon]

I remember a problem related to limitations in the LW SDK in the instancing of objects with not centered pivot points, but if you want to send me the scene, I can take a look at it to see what can be done to try to fix it.

Thanks,
-Juanjo

[LightwaveGuru]

Anyone know why the wheels on the right Instanced car are in a different spot in Octane then in Lightwave viewport. THe wheels are on different layers, with pivot moved in modeler to wheel center... I have had this problem before, and to fix it I centered the object to the origin, and moved it in layout to correct place, and that does work.. but this will be extremely annoying for a Car Library. I have tried all coordinate options in instancer as well.. Parent, local, and world.

Capture.PNG

change the instance option W (for world) to L (for local)

snip lwugru

[mstewart152]

here is a test scene... Guru..local doesnt fix it. Its defentiely a problem with SDK, or something.. Fix is to have object at origin, then move into place... but that can be a less optimal workflow in some cases.

[LightwaveGuru]

here is a test scene... Guru..local doesnt fix it. Its defentiely a problem with SDK, or something.. Fix is to have object at origin, then move into place... but that can be a less optimal workflow in some cases.

its a limitation from the instancer. the instancer can not see the pivots you set with the pivot tool in lw modeler.
so you need another set up. (and also thats not the best set up. do you remember. you can instance also cloned lw geometry.
so you need not 4 wheels! one wheel is enough...if you clone them in layouter octane see that and you save VRAM!
anyway...here your scene with the right set up with 4 wheels...



including the instance ID based coloring surface for the instances...

download scene here >

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1THVNX ... 1F9qo4JoCb

snip lwguru

[mstewart152]

thanks for that Guru. That is what i ended up doing. Kind of a bummer octane can not see the modeler pivot points though.... here is main reason why.

For a car, no big deal, put the wheel at origin... and move on......but.

For something more complex, such as a layered Humanoid Robot.... with each arm, leg, finger, etc... on different layers and pivot points all figured out.... this becomes much more of a pain...

I know you did you bicycle robot guy using one layer mesh and weight maps... BUT I do not prefer that method because it slows lightwave performance way down when it has to look at TONS of vertices and weight map associations. If you Parent individual pieces to bones, its response time in the view port is WAY faster. Also, you dont need bones at all for that matter if its not deforming. But that would be a massive pain sense Octane can not see the modeler pivot points.... Re-arranging every piece by hand on a complex robot..... that would not be fun.....

One Alternative to this I have thought of is this.

1. Model the robot as you like.... get all pieces where they should be......

2. Save a separate version for piece break outs.

3. Layout bones using single layer version as reference

4. Put each piece at origin facing down Z axis

5. Parent each piece to the proper bone. The piece will automatically snap to the correct position. Assuming your bones rest positions are zeroed out.


This method would achieve the correct layout, and would be instance able by octane as well. It would also be very fast to animate, because your not using weight maps to separate pieces.

[LightwaveGuru]

thanks for that Guru. That is what i ended up doing. Kind of a bummer octane can not see the modeler pivot points though.... here is main reason why.

For a car, no big deal, put the wheel at origin... and move on......but.

For something more complex, such as a layered Humanoid Robot.... with each arm, leg, finger, etc... on different layers and pivot points all figured out.... this becomes much more of a pain...

I know you did you bicycle robot guy using one layer mesh and weight maps... BUT I do not prefer that method because it slows lightwave performance way down when it has to look at TONS of vertices and weight map associations. If you Parent individual pieces to bones, its response time in the view port is WAY faster. Also, you dont need bones at all for that matter if its not deforming. But that would be a massive pain sense Octane can not see the modeler pivot points.... Re-arranging every piece by hand on a complex robot..... that would not be fun.....

One Alternative to this I have thought of is this.

1. Model the robot as you like.... get all pieces where they should be......

2. Save a separate version for piece break outs.

3. Layout bones using single layer version as reference

4. Put each piece at origin facing down Z axis

5. Parent each piece to the proper bone. The piece will automatically snap to the correct position. Assuming your bones rest positions are zeroed out.


This method would achieve the correct layout, and would be instance able by octane as well. It would also be very fast to animate, because your not using weight maps to separate pieces.

Juanjo have now your scene and my scene. now he can search why octane not see the pivots...more i can not do in that case...

snip lwguru

[Lewis]

here is a test scene... Guru..local doesnt fix it. Its defentiely a problem with SDK, or something.. Fix is to have object at origin, then move into place... but that can be a less optimal workflow in some cases.

Try in LW 2015, Instancing behavior is "changed" in LW 2018 so "Local" mode doens't really work same as it was before and makes problem in parented/child scenes.

[LichtUndSchatten]

Hello.

Is this pivot point problem still there?
If yes. Is there a possibility to get it fixed or do we have to get used to
do a workaround.

Thx

[juanjgon]

Nope, sorry. I don't have a solution for this issue yet, so you are going to need to use a workaround.

Thanks,
-Juanjo