Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

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Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby radiance » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:13 pm

radiance Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:13 pm
Hi all,

I'm very happy to announce that the octane v1.0 beta 2.3 will not have MLT (Metropolis light transport).
I'm pretty sure you're all in shock reading this.

We have worked tirelessly to try to adapt MLT to a GPU, and we have decided to abandon our effort as the results are not up to par with what we had hoped many months ago.

However, we always had a backup plan that was co-developed alongside our MLT effort, and we have created a new algorithm that is superior to MLT, and will be delivered at the same timeframe as the MLT promise, eg beta 2.3 final.

Classic MLT on a traditional physically based renderer is in most practical renders, much slower than pure pathtracing. a current octane render of an interior, cooked for 30 minutes, with fireflies on it, will cook firefly free to the same level of noise in at least 2-3 hours with MLT. only in special circumstances does it actually give faster convergence (eg the noise dissapears faster), and these are usually interior scenes with very small access to light.

(information above is not octane specific, but applies to all CPU based unbiased engines out there too)

MLT for exteriors is not recommended, it will just focus on invisible caustics and you end up with 5x more rendertime for the same result, but without the fireflies.

Since the new an algorithm we've developed is not based upon any solid scientific paper/concept, it might take a few pre releases or RCs to get it working perfectly, but the few weeks more have advantages, as the new algorithm is somewhat similar to bidirectional path tracing without fireflies, eg you can place an emitter in a glass lightbulb, covered by a diffuse transmission cloth lampcrown, and have beautifull caustics on your walls.

I hope everyone understands that developing octane is a difficult effort, most of our stability problems, slow development and limitations are not due to octane being in beta phase, but simply the hardware platforms (GPUs) and the APIs they use (Nvidia Cuda for us) are young technologies, unpredictable, and are very sensitive to various things, including OS/cuda toolkit versions/many different GPUs and many different drivers.

Since we're not marketers but developers, we decided to inform our customers of this decision as soon as possible, after we decided to make the switch a few days ago, so all our customers know what to expect.

We haven't decided on a name for our new algorithm, but we'll get back to you on that one.

in a nutshell:

MLT: slower render time, no fireflies, still difficult with interiors with hidden lightsources or small openings, not recommended for exteriors
Our new Alternative: The same rendertime as pathtracing, no fireflies, very good for caustics and hidden lightsources, with an option for firefly free, same speed exterior rendering.

Yours,
Radiance
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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby gzavye » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:27 pm

gzavye Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:27 pm
WOW!
it's the biggest news of the year
We don't move a hair and waiting to cook with that incredible recipe :D
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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby GLmig » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:31 pm

GLmig Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:31 pm
Thank you for sharing the development decisions and showing to you care for your customers.
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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby foxid » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:41 pm

foxid Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:41 pm
Wow! Only one Q - WHEN?
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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby kubo » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:42 pm

kubo Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:42 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHA, I love the announcement, you had me completly there, I was like :shock: , great news, besides, such beautiful and unique tool as Octane needs its own algorithm for sure! way to go.
I've got a obvious name proposal: Octanator (I'll give that a further thought ;) )
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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby andrian » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:49 pm

andrian Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:49 pm
As I told this many times, RLT will light your world :)
Nice job Radiance, and all the team of Octane render..
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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby radiance » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:50 pm

radiance Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:50 pm
foxid wrote:Wow! Only one Q - WHEN?


when the pre 2.3 releases are fully stable, the new antialiasing system is solid, and area lights are working fine, we will focus for %90 on finishing the algorithm into a pre 2.3 release.

i won't give a date as i'm very much aware that MLT was the most anticipated feature that everyone's been waiting for, and we don't want to have another fiasco like we had with the first pre 2.3 release, which we had to release under pressure of the users.

But don't worry, we're not talking about 'months'.

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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby yhloon » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:58 pm

yhloon Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:58 pm
sounds good to me ;)
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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby Lutze » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:06 pm

Lutze Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:06 pm
Thanks for the insights. Take your time developing. Very much appreciate your open words, just straight as they are. Better to cut losses and concentrate on things that might work than spending endless hours on others that won´t.

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Re: Octane 2.3 final will not have MLT.

Postby Elvissuperstar007 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:27 pm

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