Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby Cyticre » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:12 pm

Cyticre Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:12 pm
aoktar wrote:I cannot repro it. It's like using Linear render buffer in rendering, not a spectral shifting. Maybe a parameter initialization problem with your c4d and plugin. Play with tonemap types in render settings. Also give a try with latest 2020.1 build.



Thanks for trying Aoktar.


Im not sure what you meant in your reply becase I do not understand "linear render buffer" or "parameter initialization".

Ill have to google "tonemap types" in the render settings .


---
Unfortunately this is a client project so I cannot risk rendering on 2020.1 as it appears to still be "experimental" and is not suitable for production purposes.

Hope to see the new 2020 build soon.

Thanks
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby aoktar » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:21 pm

aoktar Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:21 pm
You'll just make the same quick test for me not whole project.
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby Cyticre » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:07 am

Cyticre Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:07 am
aoktar wrote:You'll just make the same quick test for me not whole project.



@aoktar - I have discovered the source of the problem.


When I work with the live viewer I almost always have the LOCK RESOLUTION button enabled as to not get lost in the details and to be able to see the entire canvas.

If the live viewer window is set at anything other than "1" when the Lock Resolution button is enabled, the Post Processing tab incorrectly reflects the parameters that are set. This can be seen if you set extreme parameters to the spectral intensity with the Lock Resolution tab enabled and the numerical value for the window size at a smaller value like ".1"

Then if you "zoom" into the image by typing "1" into the window size you will see quite different results for your spectral shifting as well as the glare power.

---

Here is another screen capture demonstrating the issue from a new project:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/40x7npzy23j8a ... r.mp4?dl=0

Notice that in order for me to render the exact same parameters that I see in the live viewer window for the spectral shift I have to:

1) Enable Lock Resolution
2) Set the window size to "1"


****You can see at 1:00 in the video above as I zoom in and out of the live viewer the Spectral Shift changes as I zoom when the lock resolution is enabled*****

----

Has the LOCK RESOLUTION button previously caused such issues that you are aware of?

If using the Lock Resolution tab does actually change the parameters of the Spectral Shift, how does your team recommend users to view the entire canvas while adjusting parameters in the Post Processing Tab?

Thank you for your time.


----
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby bepeg4d » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:17 am

bepeg4d Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:17 am
Hi,
it does not seem an issue to me, but a limitation, since it is a post effect.
At 1:1, both Live View and Picture Viewer are identical, and thats the important thing, isn’t it?
ciao Beppe
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby Cyticre » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:14 pm

Cyticre Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:14 pm
bepeg4d wrote:Hi,
it does not seem an issue to me, but a limitation, since it is a post effect.
At 1:1, both Live View and Picture Viewer are identical, and thats the important thing, isn’t it?
ciao Beppe



Hi Beppe,

Touché. Maybe for future developments the team can correct the limitation in that case as this technique of zooming in and out of the canvas while working is quite common for myself and any designer I know or have watched on an Octane tutorial. Also scaling scenes and image size output is fundamental to 3D so it seems counter intuitive not to include scalable parameters as in the case of the post processing, otherwise why include them at all.

Unfortunately if my render settings are set to a larger enough output, such as 3840 x 2160, and the Lock Resolution tab is enabled, the window size is set to "1", that means I am only seeing about 1/4 of the image in the live viewer even on my 27" 4k Dell monitor.

This is a sever limitation for the post effects as a user cannot accurately set the parameters and see the entire image.


----

**In case anyone else makes it this far in the thread!:

In sum: Post Processing parameters as seen in the live viewer do not export with the same values set when you change the output to something other than what the live viewer is currently seeing.



I.E. - if you want to export a 4k image with Post Processing in Octane 2019 1.5 make sure your live viewer window is set to 4k under the "Render Settings" tab under output. Otherwise, you will be adding post processing to an image that does not render correctly...

Hope that helps the next octane user....
-----

Do you know if Octane 2020 plans to correct this issue? If the parameters of the Post Processing tab are not scalable based on image output size it seems a waste to tease users with the beauty of Post Processings capabilities.

Thanks.
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby aoktar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:18 pm

aoktar Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:18 pm
Probably due to lack of logic of how plugin works you talk this:
"In sum: Post Processing parameters as seen in the live viewer do not export with the same values set when you change the output to something other than what the live viewer is currently seeing."

There's nothing like you assumed. Everything is unique for Live Viewer and Picture Viewer for these areas. If there's a REAL problem I would be fix it. You don't know me how sensitive to problems, can't live with this otherwise
Only reason is the effect is POST processing and depends to pixels on render image. Having different dimensions will effect the results. This is logic of math in background.
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby Cyticre » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:37 pm

Cyticre Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:37 pm
aoktar wrote:Probably due to lack of logic of how plugin works you talk this:
"In sum: Post Processing parameters as seen in the live viewer do not export with the same values set when you change the output to something other than what the live viewer is currently seeing."

There's nothing like you assumed. Everything is unique for Live Viewer and Picture Viewer for these areas. If there's a REAL problem I would be fix it. You don't know me how sensitive to problems, can't live with this otherwise
Only reason is the effect is POST processing and depends to pixels on render image. Having different dimensions will effect the results. This is logic of math in background.



Aoktar,

My friend, I have no desire to anger you or put down Octane. Its the entire reason I spend $10k on a PC rig a few years ago and changed my career. I am eternally thankful to you and the Octane team for developing such an incredible and affordable product.

But I am a paying customer.

I am on the forums to learn from you.

I do not not posses the knowledge you do about Octane, nor will I ever.

So without your and Beppe's help, how can I troubleshoot the problem I am facing?

----

"you don't know me how sensitive to problems, can't live with this otherwise" - This does not translate into English, so unfortunately I do not exactly understand what you mean by this,

But again, I am on the forums to learn from you and Beppe. I need your help and want to remain a loyal Otoy customer. I am not here to criticize Octane or insult you.


----

So my question still remains:

An example: If I were to apply a filter in photoshop and zoom out of the image, the filter I applied would not change no matter how close or far away I am.

Unfortunately this is not the case for the Post Processing in Octane.

I understand that its 3D and not the same as photoshop which is a flat image. But if I apply an effect on the post processing tab, how can I see the result across the entire image on screen, not zoomed in or cropped? Because right now, if I scale the image to fit in the live viewer it changes the post processing result. Especially if my render output is large like 3840 x 2160 pixels.


Thank you for your time.
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby aoktar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:48 pm

aoktar Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:48 pm
Well thanks if you understand the logic! Of course I wish you stay with us, but please re-listen me.

I hope you understand why I react like that!?? That's why you spreading a WRONG DECISION with bolding it. Again there's not a thing like, plugin changes parameters or so for final output.
t's SIMPLE; post effect result is different on different resolutions. This not a thing can be solved with current approaches. You should understand this there's not an automatised solution in plugin side, even I cannot think a way with help of Core functions.

Only solution on my side that is to have a 2d scale function for LV, and set it to same size as outputs and scale 2d. But this is not available. Another solution on your side, use LV at same size and use a 4K monitor.
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby Cyticre » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:05 pm

Cyticre Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:05 pm
Aoktar,

I understand.

I will be more careful with the font options.


Maybe for future developments of Octane there could be an option or a button to scale the image in the LV, as you said, so that it accurately reflects post processing effects for the output.

That would be great as I prefer Post processing of Octane than trying to accomplish those effects in Photoshop and I think they look better in Octane.

---

For now , I will edit my post processing effects in the LV with the same output resolution that I intend to render at as this is currently the only way to see what the final image will look like.

I hope this feature request can be incorporated into future developments of octane.

Thanks for your time Aoktar.
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Re: Spectral Shift values opposite when rednering. Octane 1.5

Postby aoktar » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:07 pm

aoktar Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:07 pm
I'll consider adding a 2d scale option for Live Viewer. But it's a bit hard due to having a lot of extra functionality on-screen. I'll try to do after some stable release. Thanks for your understanding!
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