OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Forums: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:45 am

face_off Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:45 am
A quick update for people on the error when loading non-UV mapped props. The fix is currently being tested and I hope to release it today.

Also, if you get a message "??? is an invalid prop. It has a different number of texture vertex indexes to polygon vertex indexes. It will not be loaded into the Octane scene.", if possible, can you pls send me the prop and I'll look into it. Email to [email protected].

Thanks

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:04 am

face_off Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:04 am
Details on the instancing build (not available yet) are here...http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=25244.

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:41 am

face_off Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:41 am
For clarity, I have added the following to the post at the start of this thread under TROUBLESHOOTING:

- GUI issues (lock-up/crash) on large scenes (ie. 4million polys) - potentially due to the Windows Vista/7 "Timeout Detection and Recovery" http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 87368.aspx. Settings can be changed using Regedit. The recommended setting for Octane are registry setting HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers, TdrLevel = 3, TdrDelay =10. You will need to reboot after changing these settings.
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Postby face_off » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:04 am

face_off Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:04 am
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby Michael314 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:01 pm

Michael314 Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:01 pm
face_off wrote:
Yes, all my material modifications are stored and reloaded when I save / reload the Poser scene. I think, the ability to save to .ocs would be a very important feature, during finetuning. In Octane, I use shared parameters to allow fast and uniform setting of parameters, while the material structure I can work on in the Poser plugin is a tree, very much like the Carrara material system. I attach a screenshot to explain. For a change of the "SSS scale tweak" parameter in a tree structure, I would need to make the change in 9 materials separately.
(I am aware that the moment I use the .ocs format, the link to the Poser scene will be broken. But as I said, that would be only done for final finetuning.)

Hi Michael

Your workflow in Octane Standalone is almost identical to what mine was - so I understand where you are going from. The original plan with the plugin was for shared nodes, however that introduced a number of issues that meant copy/paste retaining texturemaps (and some of the other functions) could not be implemented. So the idea now is rather than have a shared parameter, simply copy and paste the material to the other materials that use that parameter. If doing this 9 times is an issue (and I think it would be!), then I could add a rightclick option to paste the current material to all SKIN materials (retaining the original texturemaps). Would that resolve your issue?


Hi Paul,
this would definitely help, although it would be a specific solution for skin only. There could be other cases in architectural setups.

face_off wrote:Export to OCS was part of the original functionality of the plugin, however I removed for a couple of reasons (primarily it did not work flawlessly). Ultimately, there shouldn't be any reason to export to Octane Standalone. Everything that can be done in Standalone can be done in the plugin. Any tweaks you are making in Standalone should be able to be made in the plugin faster and more efficiently - that's the goal anyway :-)

I need some more help with the material save / reload. What I did was to select the "Export Material" choice from the right-click context menu. It offered to save into files with extension .poe, and the file contents is binary data. In Octane, when I import a material macro, it wants a file with extension .ocm (which is in XML format). Maybe I picked the wrong choice.

There is not currently a facility to import/export ocm. If there is a large number of requests for it, then it could be done, but I'm not sure what it achieves. The only possible reason would be to use that material in Octane Standalone - see above for my opinion on that :-) Plus, people will manually tweak the ocm and then redo into the plugin and cause node integrity issues. If you need to tweak a material, load it, change it in the tree, save it.


I understand that, but there must be the same issues when importing materials from the live DB. I could also think about the opposite case - when a material has been created in the Poser plugin, I would like to use it in standalone Octane scenes as well.

face_off wrote:
I am very happy with the workflow of the plugin. This is a very good design! It is very convenient to change some textures in Poser via pz2 or .mc6 loading, then to right-click the figure, reimport the materials from poser for that specific figure, then to reload the figure's Octane shader, keeping the texture maps. I could never before test different texture maps so fast.

Thanks for the feedback. A lot of thought went into the design - since it needed to cater for very experienced Octane users, and also relative novices.

I am currently working with the beta team on release 1.1, which contains the Instancing implementation, plus a range of other neat features. So it's good to hear suggestions on the workflow from people like yourself.

Paul

Thank you. I think I can come up with a couple of suggestions. One great add-on for example would be to be able to use keyboard shortcuts for copying / pasting materials (for paste, two different shortcuts would be required, for the different texture-map options).

Best regards,
Michael
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Postby face_off » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:40 pm

face_off Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:40 pm
Hi Michael

this would definitely help, although it would be a specific solution for skin only. There could be other cases in architectural setups.

The "skin only" solution will be in 1.1. The release after that will allow you to select multiple materials (with control rightclick), and then paste the currently copied material into all those selected material tree items.

I understand that, but there must be the same issues when importing materials from the live DB.

LiveDB is handled differently - basically the plugin receives the actual Octane nodes, rather than XML representing those nodes. I've got both OCS and OCM load/save listed as candidates for verson 1.2.

I think I can come up with a couple of suggestions. One great add-on for example would be to be able to use keyboard shortcuts for copying / pasting materials (for paste, two different shortcuts would be required, for the different texture-map options).

With this option, you would still need to select the paste tree destination (left click) in order to determine which tree item to paste to with the keyboard shortcut, so it would save a mouseclick per paste. I need to do a business case on each enhancement, considering "what is the benefit", "how long will it take to code" and "what is the potential for breaking things"? :-)

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Postby Michael314 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:52 pm

Michael314 Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:52 pm
face_off wrote:I've got both OCS and OCM load/save listed as candidates for verson 1.2.

Hi Paul,
thanks a lot, this is wonderful news! With those enhancements, I will be really happy. These are the only things I currently really miss. All my other suggestions were just workarounds to compensate for the above features.

Best regards,
Michael
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Postby dysfunctional » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:15 pm

dysfunctional Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:15 pm
So I haven't had a chance to really test this plugin since I had to worry about migrating my website and then the Thanksgiving holiday, but there is one thing I really am struggling with, and that is the lights. I just don't understand how they work.

For example, I have an IBL rig set in my Poser preferences to load with my default empty scene (nothing in it; no character/backdrop, just lights). I load in a prop for testing, and open up the Octane plugin viewport, then fire off a render. At this point, I am not sure what lights are rendering. Don't you need to click the "Create Emitters from Lights" in order for your own Poser lights to render? If so, what light is rendering at that click?

If I look into the plugin, under the rendertarget setting, it shows "environment = texture environment" and the sub-node says "texture = bw-pool.png". This is the LDR image from the IBL light. I can see it rendering as the backdrop of the test render if I render without any physical background. I guess this IBL is rendering as a backdrop and not a light?

If I delete all of the lights from the scene, refresh the scene in Octane, then render again, the backdrop is gone. But it still renders brightly. So where is the lighting coming from? If I deleted all the lights, how is the scene lit? Checking back after refreshing the scene, it appears that "texture = bw-pool.png" is still there. Somehow, I guess the plugin is caching that information, even after I deleted all the lights (the IBL was the light that had that LDR image). Is this a bug?

If I switch in the "environment" dropdown from "texture environment" to "daylight" and then back, the bw-pool.png is gone. And then again, I have no idea what light set is rendering the scene, since the nodes do not list lights. I'm guessing the scene is lit from the "Environment" node?

Also, if my background color set in the Poser palette is grey, why is the background rendering as pure white? Will it always be pure white if there is no background object?

Also, is it possible to offer a .tif export option so we can export the image with alpha? I also usually render in PP2012 and export an additional z-depth pass. How can this be achieved in Octane with the plugin? I'm guessing it's not something that is possible at this time?

Thanks for your help.
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Postby Michael314 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:03 pm

Michael314 Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:03 pm
Hi,
LDR texture environments will contribute to lighting. For some, I head to increase the power, compared to settings required for HDR environments.
There are no things 1:1 corresponding to Poser lights in Octane, therefore you can use emitters. These are working exactly as items with ambient > 0 in Poser.
What the utility script provided with the plugin will do for you, is to convert Poser lights to such emitters. This conversion is working very well and the light intensity matches the intensity of the Poser light very well.
Use these to support the lighting provided by the environment.
I just uploaded an image to Rendo (http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/ ... id=2389045 ), it uses texture environment (HDR) and one supporting emitter, because the HDR lighting was very uniform.

Best regards,
Michael
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Postby face_off » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:04 pm

face_off Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:04 pm
I think all your questions are covered in the manual. They are also cover in the tutorial at http://youtu.be/31GcDjw1AQs.

If so, what light is rendering at that click?

But default, a new Octane scene will have a gray texture environment, which would be lighting your scene.

If I look into the plugin, under the rendertarget setting, it shows "environment = texture environment" and the sub-node says "texture = bw-pool.png". This is the LDR image from the IBL light. I can see it rendering as the backdrop of the test render if I render without any physical background. I guess this IBL is rendering as a backdrop and not a light?

Yes, no physical background is needed with Octane texture environments. You can add sunlight or other light sources in addition to the IBL with emitters.

If I delete all of the lights from the scene, refresh the scene in Octane, then render again, the backdrop is gone. But it still renders brightly. So where is the lighting coming from?

You deleted the IBL light, so the texture environment is replaced with a flat gray color so you can see something in the render. Set the power to 0.001 if you don't want that light in the scene.

If I switch in the "environment" dropdown from "texture environment" to "daylight" and then back, the bw-pool.png is gone. And then again, I have no idea what light set is rendering the scene, since the nodes do not list lights. I'm guessing the scene is lit from the "Environment" node?

That is correct - that is the same behavior that Octane Standalone has. There are no "lights" in the environment - only sunlight, or an IBL texturemap. Any emitter lights will be in the Materials Tab (since an emitter is a material function, not an environment function).

Also, is it possible to offer a .tif export option so we can export the image with alpha? I also usually render in PP2012 and export an additional z-depth pass. How can this be achieved in Octane with the plugin? I'm guessing it's not something that is possible at this time?

This is covered in the manual, but in summary it's a kernel setting.

Hope that helps.

Paul
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