OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]

Forums: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [OBSOLETE]
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:43 am

face_off Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:43 am
Hi Paul, thanks for the answer :

- I assume you restarted Poser after installing the files? => Yes, I tried it a couple of times. I also tried restarting the machine, as you suggested in your other post, but with no success
- When you originally installed Poser, did you install to S:\Poser Pro 2012, or did you install somewhere else and copy it to this location? => To S:\Poser Pro 2012
- When you installed SR3.1, did you default the install location to S:\Poser Pro 2012, or did you need to search for the install? => To be honest I cannot remember, but I tried now to launch again the SR3.1 setup file, and it prompted me to install in S:\Poser Pro 2012

I installed the other plugins you mentioned (EZSkin and the DSON importer) and they work properly.

I found the octaneplugin.log, I will forward it to you.

Thanks again for the help

For future reference, reinstalling SR3.1 resolved Andrea's problem.

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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby dysfunctional » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:29 am

dysfunctional Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:29 am
Props which have no uv mapping (ie. some glass objects) raise a python exception. This will be fixed in the next patch.

Any idea when this patch might be coming? Please put this bug in your critical list! I have tried to load .pz3 after .pz3 of scenes I've rendered in the past to see how they look in Octane and every single one of them has suffered from the issue above, which would cause a python script error and not allow me to render the scene! I never realized so many scenes I made had non-UVmapped geometry, lol.
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:39 am

face_off Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:39 am
Any idea when this patch might be coming? Please put this bug in your critical list! I have tried to load .pz3 after .pz3 of scenes I've rendered in the past to see how they look in Octane and every single one of them has suffered from the issue above, which would cause a python script error and not allow me to render the scene! I never realized so many scenes I made had non-UVmapped geometry, lol.

I have the fix already done. I just need to thoroughly test it.

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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby Andrea1972 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:45 am

Andrea1972 Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:45 am
face_off wrote:For future reference, reinstalling SR3.1 resolved Andrea's problem.


Yes, now it is loading OK, thanks for the quick support!

I'm trying some existing character and scene, and I think I'm finding a problem similar to the one reported by dysfunctional. I usually need to remove one or two items to get the scene load properly in Octane.

Besides this, I like how the plugin works, I will wait for the fix to test it on larger scene files.
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby Michael314 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:30 am

Michael314 Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:30 am
face_off wrote:
I have one question: I did not find a way to save the converted Octane scene. Is this done automatically in some hidden folder?
Reason I'm asking is that once the setup of the scene is complete, and you're only tweaking lighting / materials, it would be no longer
required to fire up Poser for that. Another possible reason would be some extension of Octane which is not yet mirrored in the plugin.
Apart from that, it would be sufficient to work just in Poser.

Hi Michael. The converted Octane is saved with the Poser scene when you File -> Save. Then all the settings and materials are reloaded when you File -> Load. You need to have the Poser scene open for the Octane scene you are rendering. The Octane scene is not saved in OCS format (although this will potentially be possible in a future release), however there should be no need for loaded the scene into Octane Standalone, as all the features from Standalone are in the Poser plugin. The next release of the plugin will include the Instancing implementation in the current version of Octane Standalone.

Hi Paul,
thanks a lot for your fast reply. Yes, all my material modifications are stored and reloaded when I save / reload the Poser scene. I think, the ability to save to .ocs would be a very important feature, during finetuning. In Octane, I use shared parameters to allow fast and uniform setting of parameters, while the material structure I can work on in the Poser plugin is a tree, very much like the Carrara material system. I attach a screenshot to explain. For a change of the "SSS scale tweak" parameter in a tree structure, I would need to make the change in 9 materials separately.
(I am aware that the moment I use the .ocs format, the link to the Poser scene will be broken. But as I said, that would be only done for final finetuning.)

face_off wrote:
One more thing I cannot figure out how to do is how to modify materials

Go to the Materials tab in the plugin and click a node, then at the bottom of the window you can change the node type. Rightclick a material to save to disk. The save format the same as the Standalone material macros.

I need some more help with the material save / reload. What I did was to select the "Export Material" choice from the right-click context menu. It offered to save into files with extension .poe, and the file contents is binary data. In Octane, when I import a material macro, it wants a file with extension .ocm (which is in XML format). Maybe I picked the wrong choice.

Best regards,
Michael

P.S.: I am very happy with the workflow of the plugin. This is a very good design! It is very convenient to change some textures in Poser via pz2 or .mc6 loading, then to right-click the figure, reimport the materials from poser for that specific figure, then to reload the figure's Octane shader, keeping the texture maps. I could never before test different texture maps so fast.
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:53 am

face_off Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:53 am
Yes, all my material modifications are stored and reloaded when I save / reload the Poser scene. I think, the ability to save to .ocs would be a very important feature, during finetuning. In Octane, I use shared parameters to allow fast and uniform setting of parameters, while the material structure I can work on in the Poser plugin is a tree, very much like the Carrara material system. I attach a screenshot to explain. For a change of the "SSS scale tweak" parameter in a tree structure, I would need to make the change in 9 materials separately.
(I am aware that the moment I use the .ocs format, the link to the Poser scene will be broken. But as I said, that would be only done for final finetuning.)

Hi Michael

Your workflow in Octane Standalone is almost identical to what mine was - so I understand where you are going from. The original plan with the plugin was for shared nodes, however that introduced a number of issues that meant copy/paste retaining texturemaps (and some of the other functions) could not be implemented. So the idea now is rather than have a shared parameter, simply copy and paste the material to the other materials that use that parameter. If doing this 9 times is an issue (and I think it would be!), then I could add a rightclick option to paste the current material to all SKIN materials (retaining the original texturemaps). Would that resolve your issue?

Export to OCS was part of the original functionality of the plugin, however I removed for a couple of reasons (primarily it did not work flawlessly). Ultimately, there shouldn't be any reason to export to Octane Standalone. Everything that can be done in Standalone can be done in the plugin. Any tweaks you are making in Standalone should be able to be made in the plugin faster and more efficiently - that's the goal anyway :-)

I need some more help with the material save / reload. What I did was to select the "Export Material" choice from the right-click context menu. It offered to save into files with extension .poe, and the file contents is binary data. In Octane, when I import a material macro, it wants a file with extension .ocm (which is in XML format). Maybe I picked the wrong choice.

There is not currently a facility to import/export ocm. If there is a large number of requests for it, then it could be done, but I'm not sure what it achieves. The only possible reason would be to use that material in Octane Standalone - see above for my opinion on that :-) Plus, people will manually tweak the ocm and then redo into the plugin and cause node integrity issues. If you need to tweak a material, load it, change it in the tree, save it.

I am very happy with the workflow of the plugin. This is a very good design! It is very convenient to change some textures in Poser via pz2 or .mc6 loading, then to right-click the figure, reimport the materials from poser for that specific figure, then to reload the figure's Octane shader, keeping the texture maps. I could never before test different texture maps so fast.

Thanks for the feedback. A lot of thought went into the design - since it needed to cater for very experienced Octane users, and also relative novices.

I am currently working with the beta team on release 1.1, which contains the Instancing implementation, plus a range of other neat features. So it's good to hear suggestions on the workflow from people like yourself.

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby wimvdb » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:46 pm

wimvdb Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:46 pm
I am running into a couple of problems

- I loaded a large scene. The addon loaded correctly and after opening the viewport it started to render. I soon discovered that it was too dark. Since the UI was very slow, I then decided to stop the render (by pressing the stop button in the view port). The cursor changed to busy and then it was pretty much over - the whole machine went into crawling mode. It took me 20 minutes to get control back over the machine (of course I could have rebooted the machine). When I finally succeeded in killing Poser I got control back.
- Is there a way to limit the resouces the render engine uses, so you have some control?
- It seems like the render engine runs in the context of Poser. Why not a separate process? (task manager did not show one)
- Is there a (simple) way to stop/kill the render besides the stop button?

Some minor issues as well:
- I was unable to restart the octane plugin after loading a scene and running the Scene texture Counter. It came back with a python error which said it was unable to locate the octane plugin. After restarting poser, the plugin loaded correctly with the same scene. I was unable to reproduce the problem after that

- If you have screen DPI set higher as the default, the addon window is too small. It would be nice to either take the DPI into account or enable resizing the window. Currently some of the text is outside the window

- I also ran into the "different number of texture vertex indices to polygon vertex indices" problem and afterwards in the python exception error. Is there a way to correct this apart from deleting the props and figures from the scene?

- It is unclear to me how max texture maps and memory size is handled. Do you have to adapt the defaults in OctaneDefaults.py according to your videocard or does the addon do this when it is started?

So far the addon looks very good. I only played with it for a short time, but I am impressed by the results even with default material conversions
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:32 pm

face_off Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:32 pm
Hi wimvdb

Good to see you here.
- I loaded a large scene. The addon loaded correctly and after opening the viewport it started to render. I soon discovered that it was too dark. Since the UI was very slow, I then decided to stop the render (by pressing the stop button in the view port). The cursor changed to busy and then it was pretty much over - the whole machine went into crawling mode. It took me 20 minutes to get control back over the machine (of course I could have rebooted the machine). When I finally succeeded in killing Poser I got control back.

How large was the scene?

I have a lower scene PC/card that yours and I start pushing the absolute limits to 4mil polys (8mil tris). Click the "Image File Statistics" prior to opening the viewport to see the poly count (or run the Scene Texture Counter). Or mouseover the bottom status bar of the viewport whilst rendering to see the triangle count that's inside the graphics card. I haven't yet seen hitting "Pause" to cause an issue (I too pause prior to tweaking materials). The GUI is slow because Octane is sharing the same graphics card are your display. If you have an on-board (unused) card, you can use that as your display adapter to get back to normal. I'm in your situation where but Octane Standalone and the plugin can slow the Windows GUI down a little on heavy scenes. But pause/continue should work well. I'd be interested to know if hitting pause being an issue was a one off or consistent. This could well be a "Timeout Detection and Recovery" issue - my understanding is that OctaneStandalone should adjust these Win 7 settings in the registry - however you can check this manually (HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers - TdrLevel: 3, TdrDelay: 10)

- Is there a way to limit the resouces the render engine uses, so you have some control?

As above, the on-board graphics is an option. You can also turn down your OpenGL settings in Poser. And as above, check your registry settings.

- It seems like the render engine runs in the context of Poser. Why not a separate process? (task manager did not show one)

It's separate thread. I've found (apart from the Windows GUI), OctaneRender and Pose do not impact each others speed. Octane renders run at the same speed in Poser as they do in OctaneRender Standalone (except for the viewport updating).

- Is there a (simple) way to stop/kill the render besides the stop button?

Either Pause, close the Octane Render Viewport or close the Octane Render Setup window - all 3 stop the rendering. If hitting Pause - click it once and wait until the continue button is highlighted.

- I was unable to restart the octane plugin after loading a scene and running the Scene texture Counter. It came back with a python error which said it was unable to locate the octane plugin. After restarting poser, the plugin loaded correctly with the same scene. I was unable to reproduce the problem after that

How big was the scene? (ie. how many polys did Scene Texture Counter report?)
Do you have the exact error message?

- If you have screen DPI set higher as the default, the addon window is too small. It would be nice to either take the DPI into account or enable resizing the window. Currently some of the text is outside the window

I will check this out. I'm not sure I would be able to detect the video DPI setting from python. This sounds like a Poser python/wxpython issue. To get around it the screen dimensions could be set in the OctaneDefaults.py file to accommodate your situation.

- I also ran into the "different number of texture vertex indices to polygon vertex indices" problem and afterwards in the python exception error. Is there a way to correct this apart from deleting the props and figures from the scene?

This error message will generate on potentially corrupt meshes. Are you able to send me the OBJ file pls? I can check it out.

- It is unclear to me how max texture maps and memory size is handled. Do you have to adapt the defaults in OctaneDefaults.py according to your videocard or does the addon do this when it is started?

500 series and old cards have a max LDR texturemap count of 64 rgb and 32 grayscale. The new Kepler cards have 256 rgb and 128 grayscale. If you have the newer card, put the 256/128 numbers in your OctaneDefaults file. Hopefully in short-term these parameters will be able to be returned by Octane (however at the moment it returns these number after the render has starter, which is to late). Your 500 series card will use the defaults.

Hope that answers your questions.

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby wimvdb » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:55 pm

wimvdb Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:55 pm
How large was the scene?

Scene texture counter gave 24 texture and 27 greymaps totalling 394MB. No polycount mentioned.
Image file statistics gave 395MB and 3.9M polygons
I tried it again and pretty much the same problem occurred.
Then I suddenly realized that I picked up and tried the new version of Octane, but I never copied it to the install location.
After I had done that, the UI is still slow but a lot better than before. And now the stop button does work. So good to know that in these case you do need RC3

I also checked the registry and the Tdrlevel was set at 0. Should I change that one to 3 and at the same level add TdrDelay with a value of 10? The UI still stutters for 5-10 seconds when rendering this scene
The original Octane setup did not change these values.



Limit the resources:

Unfortunately I don’t have an onboard graphics card. I think I will get a GTX 600 card and add it to the machine. Most scenes which I have won’t fit easily in the 64 texture limit getting it higher will make life a lot easier (and faster with the additional card


Octane as a separate process?

The main reason you’d want a separate process is that one will not bring down the other. If the thread is stuck, Poser is stuck as well. And killing it will kill the main process (poser) and you loose your changes. That preciselu the reason why I use firefly as a separate process as well. Another advantage is that you can lower the priority (not sure if that would do any good though). Memory and cpu usage itself are no problems anymore when you run in-process, but the dependency is


Stopping the render.

When I tried closing the setup window, Poser crashed. So that is not a good idea


The script error:

This was a similar scene as I had the problem with. This one was a bit larger. The problem occurs when I want to load this one. Size is 4.1MB, 35 textures, 37 greymaps. So probably too large for the card


DPI setting

I will experiment with the settings to see if that solves the problem. Resizing would be nice though. It is also a poser problem, but in most areas they changed the layout so it is not a problem anymore (but they don’t follow the DPI setting for the fonts, which is a real shame for those of us who need larger fonts)

Vertex mismatch problems

I think I have a non-commercial one. How do I get it to you. Or should I use Mantis?
The other obj are commercial ones. It seems to be related with what 3d modeler it is made. In the commercial ones all of the props have the problem


Texture maps count

I have been expermenting in lowering the number. For some scenery sets it is almost impossible because of features of the mesh done with displacement maps. You can’t leave those out or change it to another material.
One thing which would be nice is a global replace of a material in different props. If you miss one, Octane will still use the remaining one which is just as bad as using the original texture for all of them



Thanks for your answers.

Going to try some of those things out tomorrow

Wim
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.00m [CURRENT]

Postby face_off » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:42 am

face_off Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:42 am
Hi Wim

Image file statistics gave 395MB and 3.9M polygons

3.9M polygons is quite a large scene. Typically these are forest type scenes from DAZ? Instancing will be your friend here - I'll post some screen shots soon. Also, on the forest scenes, often only a tiny part of the scene is actually being rendered.

When you render a 4mil poly scene, how often is the Octane Render Viewport updating at 800x600 resolution?

Then I suddenly realized that I picked up and tried the new version of Octane, but I never copied it to the install location.

Someone from Otoy would need to confirm this, but I thought different versions of Octane set a different Tdrlevel in your registry. So running the latest Octane RC3 may have done something there.

If you run your 4mil poly scene in Octane Standalone, you will still get the UI stutters. The entire scene is being loaded into your graphics card - so options are....change from the path tracing to direct lighting render kernel, reduce the scene size, reduce the rendersize, tweak the Wndows Timeout Detection and Recover, get additional GTX graphics cards so you have more cores (and therefore the delay between viewport updates is much less), get a second graphics card to run the windows UI on (and it won't get blocked by the rendering card). I'm sure there are others...

Should I change that one to 3 and at the same level add TdrDelay with a value of 10? The UI still stutters for 5-10 seconds when rendering this scene

3 and 10 where the numbers given to me a few days ago by one of the Otoy techs, so I recommend using those.

Unfortunately I don’t have an onboard graphics card. I think I will get a GTX 600 card and add it to the machine. Most scenes which I have won’t fit easily in the 64 texture limit getting it higher will make life a lot easier (and faster with the additional card

Do some research on this (en these forums). I /think/ the memory size is limited by the rendering graphics card with the least memory. So if you have a 1gig and a 2gig card in your PC, you'll still only get one gig. You can turn off the 1gig card (in the Cuda Devices tab of the plugin) if you need to full 2gig in this scenerio, however you'll obviously loose the cores from the 1gig card.

Stopping the render.
When I tried closing the setup window, Poser crashed. So that is not a good idea

If this is happening, then I definitely think there is an issue with the Octane render process blocking the Windows GUI. Can you pls try the registry settings above and retry this? I have never seen of heard of shutting down the setup window causing problem.

DPI setting
I will experiment with the settings to see if that solves the problem. Resizing would be nice though. It is also a poser problem, but in most areas they changed the layout so it is not a problem anymore (but they don’t follow the DPI setting for the fonts, which is a real shame for those of us who need larger fonts)

I had a look at this, and changing the DPI to 150% caused issues with PoserPhysics, and a bunch of other scripts too. Just making the Octane Render Settings window larger will not address the issue, since the screen widget will not move relative to the right border. If I use more real-estate at 100% DPI to accommodate 150% DPI, users will be very unhappy that the settings window is using more screen space.

Vertex mismatch problems
I think I have a non-commercial one. How do I get it to you. Or should I use Mantis?
The other obj are commercial ones. It seems to be related with what 3d modeler it is made. In the commercial ones all of the props have the problem

Not absolutely sure what you mean by the last sentence. I've had the issues reported during beta and ask for a copy of the prop, and when I opened it it looked like the prop had not been saved correctly from the modeler (I think it was modo?). The user re-saved the model and then it was fine. I can accommodate vertex mismatched geometry, however I need to get one that is not corrupt in order to test, and no one has been able to supply one yet. Pls email me at [email protected].

Texture maps count
I have been experimenting in lowering the number. For some scenery sets it is almost impossible because of features of the mesh done with displacement maps. You can’t leave those out or change it to another material.
One thing which would be nice is a global replace of a material in different props. If you miss one, Octane will still use the remaining one which is just as bad as using the original texture for all of them

Octane does not do displacement (yet), so you shouldn't need those maps. I like the idea of a global texturemap replacement. I will add that to version 1.1. The other factor to consider is that if you have the same map used by an "image" (ie. diffuse) node and a "floatimage" (ie. bump/opacity map), it will use an rgb slot and a grayscale slot. So if you are running out of grayscales, and have textuemaps used in both image and floatimage you can convert the floatimage to image node and save yourself the grayscale slot (hope that does confuse everyone!).

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