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thx you guys thats fantastic I'm happy blender octane user

larmannjan wrote:any news on the current state of the development?

Sorry for the long time of silence... There were a big changes in my life happened, I've changed the country of residence during the last months, so the work on Blender and Maya plugins was halted for a while during all this turmoil...

Now I'm going back to work on this, so here is the little update about what was done these last days.
The work on integration Octane shaders into the Blender is finished in the first working stage. There is a huge amount of work in this regard - as Blender does not have the shaders API for the plugins, so I was forced to integrate Octane shaders network right into the Blender core. The Blender core internals are not documented at all, so I'm forced to reverse-engineer it all during this work...

But despite the fact the plugin looks working well, do not expect to get it for alpha-testing too soon - as there is the reason why the Blender plugin can not be released for testing the same fast as all other plugins, even if it is almost in working stage already... The reason is - GPL licensing issues. I already have found the way how to solve this issue and this plugin is coded so, that it does not violate the GPL. But the nature of GPL does not let me to release it even for alpha-testing before I will be absolutly sure that there are no issues in the released versions that will bring some troubles to Otoy. So, the slowdown here is not the coding itself, but all the legal troubles which must be solved before the first alpha-testing release...
So, be patience please. I'm trying to sort all this out as fast as possible.

Perhaps you should have extended the Blender api for renderers as the a first step instead of trying to go cyborg with it.
I don't really see how you can claim it doesn't violate GPL unless you release the Octane code you used as well.
Anyone will have the right to use your code and sell it then too...
What about updates? Will you manage to keep releasing a new Blendane for each Blender or Octane release?
Will it be supported on Windows/Linux/Mac? How about if someone wants to incorporate scripts and such specifically for Octane users benefit, or say an Octane materials library? Can you legally link/pass data to the online Octane library? later to the Octane cloud? How will these issues work in with your presumably exclusive development rights and financial rewards?
Sounds like a real legal and practical minefield to me.

pixelrush wrote:Perhaps you should have extended the Blender api for renderers as the a first step instead of trying to go cyborg with it.

It is much more work - to implement all the whole missing Python API, coordinating its structure with Blender foundation, to just use it later by the plugin. It is the work of Blender developers, I don't have too much time for it. If it will be added later by Blender foundation - the plugin will start use it.

pixelrush wrote:I don't really see how you can claim it doesn't violate GPL unless you release the Octane code you used as well.
Anyone will have the right to use your code and sell it then too...

Don't worry. If you don't see it - it just means that the solution is too complicated to see it easily. And it is the reason why nobody coded the Blender plugin such a long time...
As I already said - the GPL is NOT violated, and Octane engine internals are NOT exposed.
I already gave some hint in my post with previous video, and if you will look at this last video attentively - you can find the key of how it was solved.

pixelrush wrote:What about updates? Will you manage to keep releasing a new Blendane for each Blender or Octane release?

Yes, it will be updated. But I think it will be good way if after the plugin becomes stable - Blender foundation maybe can incorporate it into the trunk starting from some Blender release... But all this may be discussed only after we will get the working stable release.

pixelrush wrote:Will it be supported on Windows/Linux/Mac?

On Windows - already yes.
On others - it is not my decision area. Otoy leaders will decide it. Technically - no problems.

pixelrush wrote:How about if someone wants to incorporate scripts and such specifically for Octane users benefit, or say an Octane materials library?

"Scripts" - it is already possible in all other Octane plugins (at least in Maya, which I've coded too - not only scripts, but even batch execution).
About extending Octane engine features by users - it is impossible.
The plugin is developed such a way, that you will not be able to modify functionality of Octane engine.
But you will be able to modify the plugin itself to be more convenient for your workflow, or fix the bugs... Of course if you know how to code in C-C++ and how to compile-assemble the full Blender distributive...

pixelrush wrote:Can you legally link/pass data to the online Octane library? later to the Octane cloud?

The plugin is coded so, that there is no way for feature users of this plugin to do such a things.
I will repeat here: it is not my decision area. It is the legal question, not technical. Technically - no problems. Legally - Otoy leaders will decide.

pixelrush wrote:How will these issues work in with your presumably exclusive development rights and financial rewards?
Sounds like a real legal and practical minefield to me.

They will work. Trust me.

server address perhaps ?

So if I have this right then this special Blendane edition will be yours exclusively and we will pay you to obtain it and for the update service but via the Otoy umbrella?...or is it an 'OctaneRender for Blender' front end we are paying for with your Blendane thrown in? extra?
No community or individual hacking, contributions. or redistributions of Blendane are allowed even though its all still GPL compliant, right? I cant see myself volunteering to fix bugs if you are getting paid for providing the whole but...

ok so I guess we keep watching this space and hoping it all works out satisfactorily for everyone.

pixelrush wrote:So if I have this right then this special Blendane edition will be yours exclusively and we will pay you to obtain it and for the update service but via the Otoy umbrella?...or is it an 'OctaneRender for Blender' front end we are paying for with your Blendane thrown in? extra?
No community or individual hacking, contributions. or redistributions of Blendane are allowed even though its all still GPL compliant, right? I cant see myself volunteering to fix bugs if you are getting paid for providing the whole but...

Not right... "Individual hacking" of GPLed code can not be restricted, as it is allowed by GPL, and the plugin strictly conforms to GPL. As I wrote above - you will be able to individually "tune" the GPLed part of the plugin.
You are very inquisitive. Do not rush, be patience. I can't describe you all these complicated details in a few words. You just will see all by yourself, after it will be ready to release for alpha-testing.
And so far - just relax and trust me: all will work OK, GPL will not be violated, Otoy will not be disadvantaged.

Hi JimStar,

thank you for your effort!
It quite a big impact to move to another country!

Great progress display there with Octane for Blender plugin dev...

all the best,

pixelrush wrote:server address perhaps ?

So if I have this right then this special Blendane edition will be yours exclusively and we will pay you to obtain it and for the update service but via the Otoy umbrella?...or is it an 'OctaneRender for Blender' front end we are paying for with your Blendane thrown in? extra?
No community or individual hacking, contributions. or redistributions of Blendane are allowed even though its all still GPL compliant, right? I cant see myself volunteering to fix bugs if you are getting paid for providing the whole but...

ok so I guess we keep watching this space and hoping it all works out satisfactorily for everyone.

Hi pixelrush, it almost seems that you don't want an integrated plugin for Blender...

Of course, part of the plugin will be open-source and under the GPL and part of it (including the Octane render engine) won't be. And if you read the Blender license you can see that the only way to achieve this is to run the render engine in a separate process, because any linking of non-GPLed code with Blender is not allowed. How that is achieved you can try to figure out yourself for now. There aren't many possibilities.

Regarding the necessary changes of the Blender code to allow Octane nodes: The ideal solution would be not to have to do this, but until there is an API to allow your own nodes in Blender, Jim had to directly modify the Blender code. Maybe Blender Foundation will take over those changes, but it likely won't happen in the near term, especially not if this code isn't finished/stabilised yet. I assume they would rather develop a node API. As a consequence, when we start distributing the Blender plugin we probably have to make those changes available via a patch or something else. We don't know yet. And the modified Blender binaries will be available free of charge, but of course there isn't much use for them if you don't have the Octane plugin. We had a look and as far as we know there has been no precedence where a commercial company made changes to Blender to allow a plugin to run.

I hope that makes sense. It's not that there are many options available and if you follow the GPL, you will end up exactly with the solution Jim is working on at the moment. Either that or no plugin at all.

Cheers,
Marcus

Does this mean that we will not see Blendtane until its at version 1.0? Will we still be able to purchase a copy at beta price? Good work so far. How can u manage to provide a plugin or maya and blender ?

Don't want one... no not at all. I am just a bit concerned about how it all fits together and that the arrangement is sustainable/practical. By the sounds of it you are doing your best to marry GPL together with commercial code by a hand off rather than a link and that's fine as long as responsiveness doesn't suffer.
Some Blender users do go for graphicall.org builds that incorporate cutting edge features or experimental code but I guess if your Octane tuned Blender versions were based on standard Blender releases that would be OK. Its got to be manageable all round and not violate any licenses though nor exclude other coders/contributors, that's all.
As I remember it a renderer API was planned some while ago as a goal for Blender 2.xx but it has never eventuated. I think it was overtaken by other priorities or a lack of resources. As you comment nodes have received a far bit of attention lately and that's probably where its headed. Campbell Barton was the one keen to get the api underway at the time I think. He would be a good person to contact about Blender code in general and any likely development.
Interesting to see what you end up with.