OTOY Forums

@suhail_spa, good luck with it - be sure to post some pics of the final rig

suhail_spa wrote:yes..

HP1A and HP4A will fit into PCIe x 1 slots- if they are spare on the desktop motherboards.. (usually there are spare PCIex1 slots; and in case these are occupied by WLAN or sound cards or someting else- you can sacrifice one)
these will essentially convert your PCIex1 slot to a PCIex16 slot (ofcourse keeping the connection transfer rate as PCIex1 only..) AND you can plug the graphics card of your taste on this PCIex16 slot- but you need to upgrade your power supply (that is the easy part)- but hey- you can get another GPU running inside your computer without upgrading the motherboard.. (but with a PCIex1 transfer rate..)

btw..even Cubix GPU Xpander for laptops (and Xpander 5 for desktops) provides a PCIex1 transfer rate- so it should work fine with these HP1A and HP4A on your desktops..well at least in theory
cheers!

That's what I thought. My issue (and I probably share this with a lot of others) is that my motherboard is sufficiently old that it cannot accept a double width video card into the PCIex16 slot. So using this method I could upgrade to a more modern card than the GTS 240 that I'm currently using. Or better yet, use it as a second card?

suhail_spa wrote:P.S.- your avatar really sounds like your name ...just kidding

No need to be kidding: The avatar was intentional.

Few more updates- on running CUDA over these DIY (do-it-yourself) kits...
I posted a few queries on the thread which started this- 'DIY-vidock'
http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming- ... ences.html

My queries marked in RED
Response marked in BLUE

(btw..it is clear that I would need an external monitor to run CUDA based softwares..which is OK and i can manage )

Re: DIY ViDock Experiences

.........
1) since this software is using the graphics card(s), only for processing.. cant' we use this without an external monitor (and without monitor cloning)? There is a device available called 'Cubix Xpander' (http://www.cubix.com/content/gpu-xpander-laptops)- which allows PCIex1 expansion to multiple PCIex16 slots (with own power supply- like 750W). It doesnt require any external monitor while useing 'octane render'. This is a 'bang-on target' product for GPU expansion for laptops as well as desktops- but its expensive (950$ for laptops, and 1900$ + for desktops)..
For this particluar software (octane render), cant we use it without the external monitor- as GPU is being used for processing only..?

2) I have an onboard Quadro FX880M (1GB) card on laptop... While using this DIY-rig (PE4H), can i use my primary card too for processing as well display of laptop monitor...?
..........

hi suhail_spa and welcome to the forums


i have a PE4H + EC2C(express card) + Galaxy GTX 460 GC 768MB and my computer is Called Acer Extensa 5620z Pentium Dual Core T4400 2.20ghz 4GB DDR2 667mhz that has Intel X3100 which doesn't support Nvidia Optimus and i have tried the Ultramon/Chung-Gun Method to be able to use the DiYVidock without having external monitor

unfortunately, the performance of running internal lcd using Ultramon/Chung-Gun method for me is not worth-it. the results using internal LCD without Optimus is not acceptable and in games it is not playable. you need a very powerful CPU(3.0Ghz+) to be able to make use the vidock for playing games


i also happen to test my DiY Vidock on an Optimus Enabled notebook(Toshiba A665 Core i3 350m 2.27ghz Intel HD) using internal display and the results are "O.K."


unfortunately on both internal LCD setup(Ultramon/Chung-Gun and Nvidia Optimus), Nvidia Cuda is not Present/Enabled or at least i cant see or use it so no GPGU for me


im currently using an external LCD using a Dell 2007WFP S-IPS that i won on ebay for dirt chip and i also tested on my computer and the Toshiba A665 optimus enabled computer to see if running external LCD would enable CUDA. and by running external display, i can now use CUDA for GPGPU

edit: i dont know if these applies to everyone but disabling my onboard graphics and setting my external monitor as main display makes everything much much smoother in terms of user experience

so...to cut the long story short:

both Vidock4 plus (http://www.villageinstruments.com/tiki- ... age=ViDock) as well as DIY-Vidock (http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming- ... ences.html) require an external monitor to work on CUDA based softwares (and also ofcourse to play games).
Although there are work-arounds like 'monitor cloning'- but with a performance penalty on GPUs. Though on some onboard Nvidia graphics cards- the internal monitor can be used (only a limited types- Intel GMA 4500MHD, HD or x3150) with 'nvidia optimus' drivers- but on a limited types of onboard GPUs only...

matej wrote:@suhail_spa, good luck with it - be sure to post some pics of the final rig

sure ..lets see- once my PE4H kit arrives- i will test it and post experiences..


edit: on vidock4plus- there is ofcourse a power limitation of 225W (and its expensive )..whereas the DIY Vidock is cheaper and one can use any graphics card- with reasonable power supply.

AND by using this DIY kit- its possible to have dual monitor system- with the external monitor-with octane running on the more powerful external graphics card; and the slower onboard graphics card running the windows (and also the 3d host application..)..on laptops

(AND if my test with PE4H kit goes bonkers- i can still plugin a mobo, processor, ram etc and have a good system running octane and sell off the PE4H on ebay for a discount )

Finally... IT WORKS..
I was able to test out the PE4H kit, procured for 120 USD (including shipment).... with GTX460-2GB, assembled in a typical mini-cabinet, and a 500W Coolermaster Power supply....

Here are the benchmarks- with Cuda 3.2 (single GPU) and Cuda 3.0 (multi GPU) ....
followed by some pics of the rig...(i m not too good with these photos right now...can do better though )

I DIDN'T NEED EXTERNAL MONITOR...- because my laptop has Nvidia Optimus
(more about Nvidia Optimus: http://www.nvidia.com/attach/3039887?ty ... rimitive=0)

DIY thread- followed for instructions to assemble the rig: http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming- ... ences.html
and
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing ... tor-915616

where to buy the PE4H kit?
here:
http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4H.html


Installation was easy...
- just connect the PE4H adapter with the cables etc- as per instructions (in the DIY thread mentioned above.)
- plugin the graphics card, and join the 6 pin power connectors (2 nos, in this case)
- connect the PCIexpress card with cable and plug in to the laptop's PCIexpress slot...
- turn on the power- install hardware CD
- i had to install the latest nvidia drivers too

there are some known issues:
- works best with windows 7 (have some issues with vista, and can work with XP)
- does not work with mac (yet- as per the DIY thread...)
- may not work with some laptops at all ( as listed in the DIY thread)
- works best with 64 bit systems. With 32bit- can work- with some workarounds (for memory allocation issues.. exceeding 2GB ram..more details in DIY thread)
- you need PCIexpress slot in the laptops
- might need external monitor if laptop doesn't have Nvidia Optimus


it is hot-swappable, and no need to power off computer everytime... with windows 7- just need to turn comp to sleep mode- plug the rig- wakeup- go...

there is no need for external monitor if you have Nvidia Optimus on your laptop...(if not, there is monitor cloning with performance loss)

AND it is possible (i think so) to have multiple GPUs- with proper splitter adapters...(http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html) and adequate power supply...
it is a cheap alternate for Cubix- if this splitter adapter (http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html) is used- with multiple external GPUs running over PCIex1....
there are similar kits for desktops also- but i think the above mentioned splitter will work easily- without hassles...(if someone can test it out..) although I doubt that this splitter/riser can fit 2 double width cards..

cheers!
(at least I had a lot of fun )

footnote: to understand the PCIe lingo better- read this: http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3767)

big KUDOS
Next is me, but I think I'm going through the splitter.
Nice!! and thanx for sharing m8!

boy you made my sunday afternoon, I was looking for something like this for my cousin (who's getting my new and shiny license) and I was following you around here and in the other forum, finally seeing it working is great news, so I'm off to get one of those so I can hook up his rig. Not only Octane is in the cutting edge, his users are also there riding the wave!
Thanks a lot for sharing!

thanks ttaberna..kubo..
just make sure (ofcourse) that you have PCIexpress 32 slot in your laptops- and it works without hassles on 64bit win7..(otherwise there are certain memory allocation issues- but there are fixes available on the DIY thread..)

Also, in my case, external monitor was not required (phew...) because my laptop has 'Nvidia Optimus'... if it wasnt there- i would need external monitor (or i would do monitor cloning and loose some performance)

cheers!

ttaberna wrote: big KUDOS
Next is me, but I think I'm going through the splitter.
Nice!! and thanx for sharing m8!

yes...please do test out the splitter if u can..
it would surely be my next too..

btw..even desktop users can use this splitter- for GPU expansion...in theory atleast (after upgrading the power supply and making room for the splitter-and mounting it) but i dont think it can fit two double width GPUs...
but since this company is sourcing it from Taiwan is doing custom jobs too- one might be able to procure this adapter- with double width spacing...i guess

EDIT: Riser card image is now correct (also edited link in earlier post)
http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-PELY423-C7_m.html

well...its been almost 2 weeks since i assembled my external GPU rig..
this is to share my experiences so far:

- it works fine...(like my laptop's got wiiiiiings.... )
- the cabinet gets warm- but not hot enough that i should get worried about
- it is somewhat hot swappable..means i just need to put my laptop to sleep mode- and connect the hdmi cable to the pcie adapter and start rendering right away..
- however, i need to shutdown the computer before i disconnect (or power off) the external GPU, or it gives a blue screen crash..but thats OK- i need to shut down before i disconnect- and I can live with that..
- it runs for 5-6 hours continuous- before my job is done (earlier i required my laptop to run for 18-20 hours to get around 1000 samples in pathtracing...but i now get the same in less than an hour ! i repeat- my laptop got wiiiings )
- while the external GPU (GTX 460) is active, my laptop is available for any other work- on autocad,sketchup,gimp etc.. no crashes or speed issues so far (though AutoCAD 2010 does asks for onboard GPU to be active everytime a file opens- but its not a big problem anyway- and can be resolved)

i post some low- res images of some of the work done so far on this rig...(i wanted to post actual hires images which are 2000 pixels plus) but i wont be authorized to do so by my organization...

anyway..so far i think its a good solution for laptops (having pciexpress slot, and preferably having win7, 64 bit and nvidia optimus)...since i couldnt find any appropriate 'splitter' yet which can split multiple 'double width' PCIex16 slots- it still remains good enough for laptops though for a single external GPU (but hey..someone can still try multiple... and maybe ask Cubix how do they do it )

btw...the money spent on PE4H kit, power supply,cabinet etc paid off on day one itself

cheers!