OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby coilbook » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:37 pm

coilbook Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:37 pm
paride4331 wrote:
coilbook wrote:Hi Paride,
this is my follow up on poor AO light. viewtopic.php?f=81&t=71404
I did some tests and I noticed AO just doesn't shine on objects when there are a lof of lights in the scene. Please fix it. Path tracing and Diffuse doesn't have this problem.

If you look at the picture both images are done in AO mode. Identical objects. There is light on the ground on the right side and it shines great. As soon as I unhide lots of lights and other objects (light posts, skyscraper lights etc) AO light on the ground is not visible anymore like there is not enough of it. That's why one light post shines well but when there are 1000 of them they don't shine on a ground or other objects anymore. This is a bug.
All lights in the scene have sampling rate 1000-2000 Can this be the reason but then diffuse works

Thanks


Hi coilbook,
I don't know what you did, I used around 6000 lights with 2000 sampling and all seems to work in pathtracing as DL AO.
I have no idea about your issue.
Regards
Paride


Thanks, Paride. I will send you the scene
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby coilbook » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:07 pm

coilbook Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:07 pm
paride4331 wrote:
coilbook wrote:Hi Paride,
this is my follow up on poor AO light. viewtopic.php?f=81&t=71404
I did some tests and I noticed AO just doesn't shine on objects when there are a lof of lights in the scene. Please fix it. Path tracing and Diffuse doesn't have this problem.

If you look at the picture both images are done in AO mode. Identical objects. There is light on the ground on the right side and it shines great. As soon as I unhide lots of lights and other objects (light posts, skyscraper lights etc) AO light on the ground is not visible anymore like there is not enough of it. That's why one light post shines well but when there are 1000 of them they don't shine on a ground or other objects anymore. This is a bug.
All lights in the scene have sampling rate 1000-2000 Can this be the reason but then diffuse works

Thanks


Hi coilbook,
I don't know what you did, I used around 6000 lights with 2000 sampling and all seems to work in pathtracing as DL AO.
I have no idea about your issue.
Regards
Paride



HI Paride,
I sent you the scene as PM. Please open octane viewport with just two objects isolated (the car and the ground) and you will see the light on the ground. Then exit the isolation mode and refresh the scene and there is no more light on the ground. This might be the reason with light posts not shining light on trees and leaves in AO mode. Here is the video too. Hopefully they can fix it

Thanks
Attachments

[ Play Quicktime file ] FullSizeRender.MOV [ 1.44 MiB | Viewed 721 times ]

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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby paride4331 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:02 pm

paride4331 Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:02 pm
Hi coilbook,
personally I wouldn't know about this.
I sent your file and my report to developers.
I will let you know about.
Said that, my advice is to organize your scenes in various files, it is quite difficult to have all a modeled 3D city to make animation of some cars.
Regards
Paride
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby coilbook » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:30 pm

coilbook Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:30 pm
paride4331 wrote:Hi coilbook,
personally I wouldn't know about this.
I sent your file and my report to developers.
I will let you know about.
Said that, my advice is to organize your scenes in various files, it is quite difficult to have all a modeled 3D city to make animation of some cars.
Regards
Paride

Thanks Paride for reporting it,
animation works great if that's what you mean. It's just AO light sometimes works sometimes doen't.
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby coilbook » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:49 pm

coilbook Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:49 pm
After rendering is done, when I try to open another scene Max crashes. This problem was happening a long time ago in Octane 3 then it was fixed. Now it is back since 2-3 releases ago.
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby paride4331 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:16 am

paride4331 Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:16 am
coilbook wrote:
paride4331 wrote:Hi coilbook,
personally I wouldn't know about this.
I sent your file and my report to developers.
I will let you know about.
Said that, my advice is to organize your scenes in various files, it is quite difficult to have all a modeled 3D city to make animation of some cars.
Regards
Paride

Thanks Paride for reporting it,
animation works great if that's what you mean. It's just AO light sometimes works sometimes doen't.



Hi coilbook,
it seems to depend on lights around which increasing intensity change the reflection.
I suppose quite normal, because DL AO is considered a preview render and therefore not very reliable.
you could decrease intesity and
if you consider this an issue you could post it in the SDK forum.
Regards
Paride
Attachments

[ Play Quicktime file ] AO.mp4 [ 5.42 MiB | Viewed 708 times ]

test.zip
(255.91 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby paride4331 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:40 am

paride4331 Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:40 am
senorpablo wrote:There's a massive bug with Octane lights/emissive geo and shadow catchers. The scene is a daylight with HDRI for lighting, plus another daylight set to visible with a float texture for backplate at dark grey. Shadow catcher plane under objects of interest.

Adding an Octane light to the scene breaks the shadow catcher. The light seems to be casting shadows which are much, much darker than they should be(like 1000x). A little tiny LED size light like you might find on electronics to let you know the power is on, casts massive shadows on objects which are receiving no illumination. The result is that the entire shadow catcher turns dark and becomes clearly visible in the scene.

Octane shadow catcher broken.jpg




Hi senorpablo,
this issue seems to be because of the way shadows are calculated.
The strength of a shadow is calculated from the ratio of obstructed incoming
light to incoming light from all sources. So basically in this
particular case, the strength of the light sources themselves are
cancelled out. The effect could be better if you use a daylight
environment (the shadows are much softer with lower power).
So, there's not much we can do for now, at least nothing on the 3dsmax
To avoid this issue you should use render layers instead of shadow catcher.
Regards
Paride
Win 7 / i7 5930 - 32gb / 1 x quadro K620 / 2 x Evga Titan X Hybrid
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby coilbook » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:50 pm

coilbook Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:50 pm
paride4331 wrote:
coilbook wrote:
paride4331 wrote:Hi coilbook,
personally I wouldn't know about this.
I sent your file and my report to developers.
I will let you know about.
Said that, my advice is to organize your scenes in various files, it is quite difficult to have all a modeled 3D city to make animation of some cars.
Regards
Paride

Thanks Paride for reporting it,
animation works great if that's what you mean. It's just AO light sometimes works sometimes doen't.



Hi coilbook,
it seems to depend on lights around which increasing intensity change the reflection.
I suppose quite normal, because DL AO is considered a preview render and therefore not very reliable.
you could decrease intesity and
if you consider this an issue you could post it in the SDK forum.
Regards
Paride


HI Paride,
Do you have a link to the SDK forum so developers can look into it? I'll post this on development forum.
I just saw your video and it is not normal for the light to get weaker and weaker. I know AO doesn't have any color bleed like diffuse but loosing intensity because other lights are turned on. AO should behave like diffuse it just doesn't have a color bleed.
And rendering animation in Pathtracing mode without any RT cores enabled is way too slow. Thanks
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby paride4331 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:16 pm

paride4331 Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:16 pm
Hi coilbook,
here:
https://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=71406
post .orbx too.
Regards
Paride
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Re: OctaneRender® for 3ds max® v4.04 - 6.17

Postby senorpablo » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:58 pm

senorpablo Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:58 pm
paride4331 wrote:
senorpablo wrote:There's a massive bug with Octane lights/emissive geo and shadow catchers. The scene is a daylight with HDRI for lighting, plus another daylight set to visible with a float texture for backplate at dark grey. Shadow catcher plane under objects of interest.

Adding an Octane light to the scene breaks the shadow catcher. The light seems to be casting shadows which are much, much darker than they should be(like 1000x). A little tiny LED size light like you might find on electronics to let you know the power is on, casts massive shadows on objects which are receiving no illumination. The result is that the entire shadow catcher turns dark and becomes clearly visible in the scene.

Octane shadow catcher broken.jpg




Hi senorpablo,
this issue seems to be because of the way shadows are calculated.
The strength of a shadow is calculated from the ratio of obstructed incoming
light to incoming light from all sources. So basically in this
particular case, the strength of the light sources themselves are
cancelled out. The effect could be better if you use a daylight
environment (the shadows are much softer with lower power).
So, there's not much we can do for now, at least nothing on the 3dsmax
To avoid this issue you should use render layers instead of shadow catcher.
Regards
Paride


I am using a daylight environment with texture HDRI. The power is at 2.

I'm rendering dozens of shots and don't have time to use a render layers/compositing workflow.

Between this case, and the one Coilbook has discovered, can Octane really promote itself as "unbiased"?
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