2.0 plugin for Daz studio - when? (guesstimate) Tweet

[feloem]

I've bought this software 2 month ago and still there is no plug-in for Octane 2.x. I don't care about the reasons!!! I want a clear answer when we'll get that damn update?! Is there any way to return the plugin and get money back? I'm seriously thinking about migrating to Poser. Octane to Daz is a very nice plug-in, very nice, but it is full of bugs, it is beta and it not supporting 2.x features.
Otoy should be aware that out there, there is a serious competition between render engines. Few years ago Octane was the only true solution for GPU render but the things have changed. TheaRender for example is a very strong Render engine, it has good documentation opposite to Octane - Octane for Daz Studio's documentation is a shame!!! The only thing that could make a person to chose Octane and not Thea, Indigo or Arion is the plug-in offer. But if Otoy does not respect us and give not a clear date for the plug-ins release and a serious good documentation, it may lose many clients...

You are not alone. There are many of us here who have been waiting a lot longer than that and are now extremely anxious to get our hands on the updated plugin. For me too, I chose Octane over those other renderers you mentioned mainly because of the DAZ Studio plugin.

I don't know if there is some kind of incentive or penalty from OTOY for its plugin developers to dish out updates as fast as the standalone gets updated or otherwise. Hearing how long the average dev times have been for each version of the OCDS beta releases, I'm inclined to believe it's more of a laissez-faire type of set-up. Or maybe the DS plugin just gets more leeway because DS is still deemed as 'non-industry standard', which is a shame IMO.

That being said, this is by no means bashing OTOY, or t_3. I wish him all the best and money in the world to continue his work, because I love DS and Octane (and I hope he gets faster at it too, by golly!). Neither am I white-knighting for t_3 here, but God knows what kind of ordeal he's had to go through being a one man army in this undertaking, with DAZ allegedly not being very supportive about this plugin and all. But that's understandable, DS after all already comes packaged free with 3Delight, whose maker probably holds a lot of sway on DS's development - or not, this is just pure speculation on my part.

Being the only person on the job, t_3 does have other worldly matters to tend to other than coding. And as to why t_3 wouldn't enlist anyone's help right now is anyone's guess, but I'm sure he has a valid reason for that.

Yes, like many of us here, as a paying customer I'm frustrated (and appalled) by both OTOY and t_3's apparent lack of communication on this matter, but I see a lot of potential in the OCDS plugin and thus I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

Man you may be right but I don't care... I've paid 99 euros as they asked, not less so they might give me what I've paid for... If they cannot finish that plugin they should give us money back and stop selling it. Not mention that Octane standalone has a very bad documentation compared to version 1.x; no pdf, nothing. On the other hand Octane for C4D as an example is very expensive compared to Thea for C4D and less efficient. Thea Render had a very bad time with their plugins too and nobody wanted thea. Now that they resolved this problem, they became a real threat to Octane. If thea would make a plugin for poser, I bet that many of us would let Octane and buy Thea... Not to mention that Octane for Daz does not send the geometry to the standalone application - this is embarrassing for a commercial plug-in.

[Spectralis]

The lack of competition is probably one of the reasons more OTOY resources aren't devoted to helping complete the DS plugin. If Thea created a DS plugin and it worked better than Octane I would drop OR in a heartbeat. The time I've wasted waiting for the viewport to update expressions and refit clothing back onto a figure each time I move it is incredibly frustrating. Not to mention random poke thru now and then even though there's no poke thru in the scene! OR is usable but it's still very clunky.

[joelegecko]

I'll be honest, I'm getting sick of this whole debacle. Right now, I feel like a person who fell into some Steam's Early Access scam. You pay up front and never see anything updated.

I get it, T_3 is alone on this project. But I'm tired of having a half-baked plugin losing materials, crashing or doing whatever if feels inclined to do. But worse, it takes five damn minutes to post an update once a week. Ne need to give details. Just keep your paying customers in the loop.

As expected, this is the end of the summer/August and nothing. Neither an update nor a word.

And if you have time to chat with people who speak "in your name" in the forums, you can post an update on your project !
Hell, I'd even pay for a 2.0 version ( as long as it gets better support ).

*sigh*

[feloem]

The lack of competition is probably one of the reasons more OTOY resources aren't devoted to helping complete the DS plugin. If Thea created a DS plugin and it worked better than Octane I would drop OR in a heartbeat. The time I've wasted waiting for the viewport to update expressions and refit clothing back onto a figure each time I move it is incredibly frustrating. Not to mention random poke thru now and then even though there's no poke thru in the scene! OR is usable but it's still very clunky.

On the other hand, Daz Studio itself is a very buggy software. I have a stupid incompatibility with Zbrush - sometimes Goz for Daz doesn't send back the morphs, instead it opens a new Daz session and exports the geometry like simple mesh, no texture, no rigging, nothing; more of that, it even deactivates Zbrush; I read on forums and I found out that is a common problem, no solution for it.
Daz has no way - as long as I know - to subdivide and smooth geometry.
The same of Octane, Daz Studio has a very poor and bad documentation. And the most frustrating of all is the hair. All models of hair from Daz are very bad looking in close ups; all of them, no exceptions. You cannot use hair in closeups nor middle distance range. Daz has pretty good human models, nothing more than that. Most of the models have bad textures... Daz and Poser are not for professionals, this is my conclusion. Poser has a horrible interface, and Poser models are hideous. So if you are really in 3D choose 3D Max, Maya or Cinema 4D - Cinema 4D has a stupid hair system with almost no documentation...

[linvanchene]

edited and removed by user

[Spectralis]

While it is incredibly frustrating not having any updates in news or software I can use the latest version to create some great images that would be impossible otherwise. The plugin is usable but it just needs to be optimised and updated to the latest version to cover all my needs at the moment. Right now I waste about a third of my time waiting for the plugin to update certain figures in the viewport (even on small projects.) If that was sorted out at least that would make life easier. I think what's so frustrating is that, to mix metaphors, we're so close to this tantalising jewel that is version 2 but it remains out of reach for us unlike for other OTOY customers who get to enjoy its fruits in all their bountifulness!

The limitations of DAZ Studio such as lacklustre hair and skin aren't the fault of the plugin. If I was after entirely realistic images then I'd use higher end software and better models. But then it would cost me a small fortune to play the game. I don't think DAZ pretends to offer ultra-realistic content and this was pretty obvious once I started using it so I don't feel I was sold a donkey dressed as a horse. I've been very surprised how certain models, even quite cheap ones, can look incredibly realistic under certain lighting conditions using specific OR materials. If the plugin handled internal lighting much better than it does now then that would improve the illusion of reality significantly.

[Elele]

Well, I also get a bit frustrated playing with version 1.1 since the 1.2 still doesn't open materials from 1.1.
But I did sign up for the beta, which is a first for me, and as far as I'm concerned that means I could just have thrown my money away. Though I don't consider that to be the case... at all. The plugin is pretty sweet so far and that is partially the reason why I get impatient for updates .
Strangely I'm more relaxed now (compared to update 1.2), knowing how long the updating proces takes.
As for Octane itself I'm still blown away by the speed and quality! Even if the plugin doesn't work out I can still export scenes and render in the standalone. This is how I used to do things between DS and Carrara before the plugin came along, now it just renders a shit load faster and at way better quality

One thing I can't get my head around is the wrong or lack of communication. We all got shit to do and most of us need to establish some sort of planning. Yes, you taking 1 hour a week or even a month out of your programming time to give an update on the situation is very worth it. You might loose one hour programming but we are able to adjust our planning, potentially saving us tons of hours. For example, last I heard it was "probably" going to take about a week till we would be able to open 1.1 materials in 1.2... That was 6 months ago and still no way to open the old materials. So what is the problem? I ended up shelving Octane for 3 months because I thought I might as well wait for the update, while I could just have kept going and be in the exact same situation I am now.

Planning doesn't require a fortune teller, just up to date, accurate information.

[larsmidnatt]

I stopped rendering for a while myself. I don't like having to pick between 1.2 which has its own terrible issues that aren't worth learning to work around or dealing with 1.1 that at least I have my nice materials and lighting working in but less features.

At least with 1.1 I know the issues and typically avoid them now. I tried 1.2 again today for the first time in months and ran into all sorts of bugs. Historically these bugs will never get fixed because there will be no bug fixes for 1.2, instead we just need to wait till 2.0 is released and is a totally different tool by then. For all I know the issues I ran into with 1.2 are already fixed in whatever version t_3 is toying with behind the scenes...but who knows.

[Spectralis]

The lack of regular bug fixes is really annoying. I'm using v1.2 which works apart from the poor viewport updating. I prefer it to v1.1 but have had to shelve v1.1 projects until the conversion update arrives. Both v1.1 and v1.2 feel like dead products because as soon as v2 arrives will projects created in v1.1 and v1.2 work with it? I really hope so otherwise over a year of work will remain tied to old versions of OR. That uncertainty and the lack of any news has made me fed up considering the last news update mentioned a summer v2 release. Mid way through Aug that seems more and more unlikely. t_3 is working on a v1.5 release according to the last update but why bother when it would save time to go straight to v2? Very confusing!

[feloem]

I have a stupid incompatibility with Zbrush - sometimes Goz for Daz doesn't send back the morphs, instead it opens a new Daz session and exports the geometry like simple mesh, no texture, no rigging, nothing; more of that, it even deactivates Zbrush; I read on forums and I found out that is a common problem, no solution for it.

I used to have those issues on my old workstation. Nevertheless after I switched from windows 7 to windows 8 and now 8.1 I never had any issues with DAZ Studio, GoZ and Zbrush anymore for more than a year.

Speculation:
The issues may have happened because
- The DAZ Studio version of GoZ is handled by DS. Most other GoZ versions are installed by Zbrush.
- updates of Zbrush changed some paths used by GoZ
- uninstalling of either Zbrush and GoZ for DS left some duplicate files
- corrupted and duplicate files in different folder locations causes unexpected behavior
- sending a file from Zbrush to DS before first having used GoZ from DS may cause unwanted behavior. To put it different: After any installation first use GoZ from DS to send a file to Zbrush. This will trigger the proper paths and file locations to be registered with Zbrush. This may or may not be necessary now anymore with the latests versions.


The solutions that worked for me were
on my old workstation
- run all uninstallers and delete all remaining files especially in the GoZ folders manually
- install Zbrush, install DS, install GoZ again in that order.
- open up DS and send a file over to Zbrush with GoZ.

or
on my new workstation
- Reinstall windows 8 or 8.1
- install Zbrush, install DS, install GoZ again in that order.
- open up DS and send a file over to Zbrush with GoZ.


- - -

Daz has no way - as long as I know - to subdivide and smooth geometry.

Don't know if we are talking about the same but actually I highly recommend to activate DAZ subdivision in the paramters tab especially if you want to see all the HD morphs when rendering with the OctaneRender plugin. If a model has not subdivision and is at base resolution you can convert it to a subdivided model from the scene tab edit options.

You find a screenshot in a thread I made about it:

Set DS Subdivision / Resolution level to High - 3

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=39162

And the most frustrating of all is the hair. All models of hair from Daz are very bad looking in close ups; all of them, no exceptions. You cannot use hair in closeups nor middle distance range.

If you have Zbrush you can create your own fiber mesh hair.
Currently it takes a lot of space in the VRAM.
But on the DAZ forum there was a post by a Look at my Hair - LAMH developer that they are working together with the OctaneRender plugin developer to provide a solution.
In OCDS 2.x it is possible to transform any fiber hair into OctaneRender hair that may use less VRAM.

- - -

Daz and Poser are not for professionals, this is my conclusion. Poser has a horrible interface, and Poser models are hideous. So if you are really in 3D choose 3D Max, Maya or Cinema 4D

As far as I know DAZ Studio, Poser and Carrara are the only three software on the market with the main purpose of posing and rendering licensed 3D content sold by DAZ.

If you are using software as 3ds Max, Maya or Cinema 4D you will notice that you will not be able to read the native .duf file format that most DAZ content is using.
In addition DAZ Studio and with some limitation Carrara are the only two software that make use of the smart content and metadata system that makes it possible to categorize thousands of licensed products and find them in a few seconds.
DAZ studio is the only software in which you can load DAZ content without quality loss.

- - -

I will not comment further on the current plugin situation. What I have to say about it you can read in earlier posts of this thread and some others in the General Discussions forum.

Just to make one thing clear:
I did not have any contact to T_3 since June 26th, 2014 when he posted officially in this very thread.
Everything that I wrote was my personal opinion.

Look At My Hair and Garibaldi Hair are by no meaning professional hair systems, they are toys. Fibermesh on the other hand is a professional solution but it is not easy to use. If you want to make a pro hairstyle in Zbrush you have to be very very good, it is not for everyone. But here we are not talking about hair creation - as Daz 3D offers a lot of "hair" models. We are talking about bad and very bad models. Take the best hair mesh you have, export it as obj to maya, 3d max, blender, c4d or even carrara or hexagon and look at the mesh... almost every time it has a very ugly topology; open the textures - diffuse, alpha and bump in photoshop, gimp or whatever image editor you have... ugly too... This is why we have beautiful renders with horrible hair... Daz 3D mocks with their "hair" models - Smith Micro too. I loved Daz when I found them, it seemed a dream that came true but it is not the fact.
I am a hobbyist, but I want quality and unfortunately Daz's model doesn't offer this. They are very expensive and very bad. You may ask why I am here if I don't like Daz. I am here because I think that we, users, can make Daz correct these issues. They can make really nice human meshes, so I am pretty sure that they can make nice hair too but they doesn't care about this. We have to ask them to do it. I don't want to buy hair farm and 3d max to have a decent hair, I want Daz to make decent hair or to stop making hair at all...
C4D, Max, Maya and so on, cannot import Daz native format but they can "theoretically" import fbx exported from Daz... but this is a pain too... The only way I could ever send from Daz is via obj; all the rest worked bad or didn't work at all. You cannot export the rigging system via obj so... you can export only "dead" meshes - neither alembic is not a true solution for exporting.
I am studying a way to convert Daz bad-mesh-hair to real hair in C4D and to import back to Daz. If it will work I will make a post somewhere on the internet.
On the other hand, Daz Studio has a great base, but it needs many improvements. Octane for Daz is one of the best plugins - for connecting an authoring tool to a render software - I have ever seen, but it is incomplete, buggy and it has almost no documentation.
Not all of us have a native drawing or sculpting talent and Daz Studio could the the answer for us. But if I am not a shinny Corel Painter drawer or a Zbrush sculptor it doesn't mean that I have to accept those grotesque hair meshes that Daz offers... I want to make great art with Daz and I want quality models...
Regarding the problem with GoZ, believe me I tried everything - install and uninstall daz and zbrush, clean the registry, and so on... nothing worked. I have 2 computers very similar, on first it works normal, on the second it doesn't. I have Windows 8.1 on both of them... And I will not reinstall Windows for a Daz's bug... never.
This is my last post about Daz, as this is a thread dedicated to Octane for Daz 2.x. I'm still waiting for an official answer about the update or a way to get my money back, thanks.