Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

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Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Bookmansblues » Thu May 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Bookmansblues Thu May 11, 2017 5:44 pm
Hey all,

I am in the process of getting up to speed in Octane, and I am encountering a few problems. I have tried a number of google searches trying to sort out some of the issues I am having but so far to no avail. I am fully cognizant that I may just being doing something wrong, or that my expectations on how somethings are intended to work are incorrect, however I have yet to find someone who who can tell me what I am doing wrong if at all. In an effort not to spam the board with my first post, I have put everything I am having trouble with into one post.

1) Camera Projection (ie. Front Projection Image Mapping) why does it seem to not work quite like I would expect. I am for example able to Pan the Camera Around inside the image and see where the image ends etc, which seems counter intuitive if for example you are trying to render out CG inserted into tracked footage. And often times I will turn it on, and the image will be upside down and looking like a spherical mapped image, rather than something that fits to the camera space, or some kind of planar image that tiles into infinity, and yes this is using the Camera Projection Node slotted into the Projection input in the texture I am using. In Lightwave For example if I move the camera around the image I am trying to composite into stays locked to the camera. I have talked to a few of my friends who use Octane, and neither of them seemed to have an answer.

2) Rendering TFD sequences out of LW using Octane. It either crashes out right, or simply does not load the next Cache file in the sequence. I have tried it with both my own sim in the scene I am working in, and the content provided by OTOY. I have only gotten it to work once with a default sim in an empty scene. Nothing that I can actually use. The cache looks fine in the IPR, and updates when I change frames, but not at render time (F10). I have tried this both on my network and off, and neither seems to help.

3) texturing TFD Caches seems hit and miss, I can't seem to get a predictable result. I have tried to use for example to use the content provided by OTOY on my own sim, and it looks wrong. For example on the Otoy content it looks like normal fire, but on my sim it looked like it was blue flame instead. Weird stuff like that.

4) I am having trouble lighting a scene, using IBL but being able to have a particular mesh or material not accept the direct influence of say the environment. For example I have a space ship that is sitting in water on a lake, and I want to light the ship, but not have the light from the environment shot up on the water material because that already exists in the image, and it just doubles up and looks wrong. I just need the lit reflection of the space ship on the surface of the water for compositing purposes.

I can record videos showing these issues if necessary, however I am hoping someone can point out what I am doing wrong in each of these cases.

Thanks to anyone in advanced for any assistance you can render.


My System Specs are:

2x E5645 Intel Xeons @ 2.4 ghz
48GB Ram
Win 10 Pro 64bit
2x 1080ti's
1x EVGA 780 OC

(note: soon the 780 will be replaced with 2x more 1080ti's)
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Alteris3D » Thu May 11, 2017 8:31 pm

Alteris3D Thu May 11, 2017 8:31 pm
Hi Bookmansblues,

I can't help you with the TFD issues since I'm not a user, and can't really understand what you're trying to do with #4, but maybe I can help with #1.

I'm relatively new to Octane as well, and this took me a while to figure out. On the texture image node make sure you're u and V translate values are set to zero. Then it will behave like LW front projection image map.

UV Translate 100%
UV translate 100 percent.JPG


UV Translate 0%
UV translate zero percent.JPG


Hope this helps, Good Luck!
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Bookmansblues » Thu May 11, 2017 9:00 pm

Bookmansblues Thu May 11, 2017 9:00 pm
Alteris3D wrote:Hi Bookmansblues,

I can't help you with the TFD issues since I'm not a user, and can't really understand what you're trying to do with #4, but maybe I can help with #1.

I'm relatively new to Octane as well, and this took me a while to figure out. On the texture image node make sure you're u and V translate values are set to zero. Then it will behave like LW front projection image map.

UV Translate 100%
The attachment UV translate 100 percent.JPG is no longer available


UV Translate 0%
The attachment UV translate zero percent.JPG is no longer available


Hope this helps, Good Luck!


Thanks for the reply, though I am not sure that it is helping.

here is a screen shot of what I am working with and the visual feedback I am seeing.

Look at how the BG image is larger than the visual output, and appears stretched in the X axis.
Image
Attachments
CameraProjectionMapping.jpg
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Alteris3D » Thu May 11, 2017 9:18 pm

Alteris3D Thu May 11, 2017 9:18 pm
How come your diffuse material output is not connected to anything?
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Bookmansblues » Thu May 11, 2017 9:24 pm

Bookmansblues Thu May 11, 2017 9:24 pm
Alteris3D wrote:How come your diffuse material output is not connected to anything?

it is so I can switch the material depending on which compositing pass I am working on.

The diffuse material is matte so I can get the lighting off the surface of the water reflected off the 3D objects in the scene.

The way the material is set up now it is just for getting the reflections off the 3D objects in the scene in the water surface.

Hence question #4, I want to be able to capture those reflections without picking up the reflections from the environment, since in the footage those reflections already exist, and adding them again will make them unrealistically brighter.
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Alteris3D » Thu May 11, 2017 9:48 pm

Alteris3D Thu May 11, 2017 9:48 pm
OK, maybe I'm not being much of a help. I don't see why your background image is stretched, the camera mapping node works as I expect it to. As for your water surface reflections, why not render that without the environment, wouldn't that give you just the spaceship reflections on the water?
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Bookmansblues » Thu May 11, 2017 10:03 pm

Bookmansblues Thu May 11, 2017 10:03 pm
Alteris3D wrote:OK, maybe I'm not being much of a help. I don't see why your background image is stretched, the camera mapping node works as I expect it to. As for your water surface reflections, why not render that without the environment, wouldn't that give you just the spaceship reflections on the water?


No worries, any help is useful because it shows that the problem is probably less about my own ignorance, and more to do with something else. I am fully prepared to accept that it is about my own ignorance, but that comes with the terretory any time you try to learn something new.
but not the IBL from the image itself, sure it is not an HDRI, but it is better than nothing, and I can do a fair bit to make it look like it has the correct illumination in post.

That is something I can do in native LW without a problem by simply lighting the scene with the environment but switching the water surface to raytraced and spherical map, and leave the map input empty. As far as I can tell, Octane does not have an input for that, so I may be out of luck there.
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby juanjgon » Thu May 11, 2017 10:57 pm

juanjgon Thu May 11, 2017 10:57 pm
Hi,

I must check it again, but I remember a limitation related to the cameras to be used in the camera projection must have the same resolution aspect ratio that the main camera. Perhaps this is your problem. If you want to send me a sample scene with this issue I could test it here.

To render TFD sequences in update mode, you must enable the "Update Volumetrics" option in the render target root node options panel. Without this option enabled, the plugin will render always the volume from the first frame. Of course, you could also configure the render mode to "Full scene reload".

I'm not sure what could be the problem with the TFD shading. Usually, the problems with the emission are related to don't have a correct scale for the emission grid, or some kind of issue in the blackbody emission node, like have the "Normalize" option enabled. If you want to send me your TFD scene, I could test it here check the shading issues.

About the IBL lighting, I'm afraid that currently Octane doesn't allow exclude objects from lights, or from the textured environment. I'm not sure if someone has a workaround, but I suppose that breaking the scene into several layers and compose them in post can be one solution.

Thanks,
-Juanjo
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Re: Let's Pllay: Bug, Feature, or User Error?

Postby Bookmansblues » Thu May 11, 2017 11:28 pm

Bookmansblues Thu May 11, 2017 11:28 pm
juanjgon wrote:Hi,

I must check it again, but I remember a limitation related to the cameras to be used in the camera projection must have the same resolution aspect ratio that the main camera. Perhaps this is your problem. If you want to send me a sample scene with this issue I could test it here.

To render TFD sequences in update mode, you must enable the "Update Volumetrics" option in the render target root node options panel. Without this option enabled, the plugin will render always the volume from the first frame. Of course, you could also configure the render mode to "Full scene reload".

I'm not sure what could be the problem with the TFD shading. Usually, the problems with the emission are related to don't have a correct scale for the emission grid, or some kind of issue in the blackbody emission node, like have the "Normalize" option enabled. If you want to send me your TFD scene, I could test it here check the shading issues.

About the IBL lighting, I'm afraid that currently Octane doesn't allow exclude objects from lights, or from the textured environment. I'm not sure if someone has a workaround, but I suppose that breaking the scene into several layers and compose them in post can be one solution.

Thanks,
-Juanjo


Thanks I will look into this and see if it solves my problems, sounds promising.

Right now I am rendering a test scene with the Plate Camera Projected on to a sphere, and while it looks mostly ok, the camera can bank and tilt in the scene which would be fine if it wasn't a camera track of moving footage.

As far as Multipass Compositing, I had assumed that would be what I had to do, which is no problem for me, but even with that my only solution is to completely replace the water itself. while that is not that big of a deal for this scene, I can imagine that being problematic later on down the road however. If I were to add a feature request, that would be at the top of my list.
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