The Octane Imager (again) Tweet

[Andreas_Resch]

After looking at the new 28.9 custom build version, I'm still not happy with way the Octane Imager Preview Mode/Render Mode dissonance is tackled. I'm even more confused now (party because there's still some graying out bug in there). So for a hopefully final time I try to untangle the situation. There has to be a better way.

Here are some things that make the whole situation a bit chaotic now ...
*) Wording: There are a lot of Octane-specific words in there that might be confusing to Blender users or new Octane users. There's the "Imager" that sounds rather antiquated. Than we have a "Preview Mode" and a "Render Mode". Better to understand but still confusing in combination with the "Imager".
*) There are a lot of checkboxes right now. This leads to a lot of possible combinations - too many in my opinion.
*) In Preview Mode the settings can change between the actual preview settings and the camera settings when you jump in and out of the Camera Perspective view. This could be seen as a feature but for me personally it's distracting and I'd like an option to deactivate that.
*) The new checkboxes at the top feel out of place. Why not put them inside the corresponding panel and make it simpler?

So here are some thoughts/suggestions based on the points above ...
*) Move the checkboxes into the corresponding sections. I will not dive into the PostProcess section now. But solutions could be alongside the ones for the Octane Imager section.
*) Remove the checkbox in front of the Octane Imager header and replace it by a "Reset All Settings" button. There are always settings that influence the viewport appearance and unchecking the checkbox leaves you in a limbo about what's going on. Based on "what you see is what you get" it makes more sense to have a reset button to set everything back to default. And getting rid of another checkbox only helps.
*) Slight change of wording to "Use For All Cameras (Render Mode)" to more accurately reference the panel that this is connected to.
*) Add a checkbox (I know - but this is a nice one) named something like "Use for Camera View (Preview Mode)". This addresses my wish from above to stay consistent between User Perspective and Camera Perspective. I'd rather stay in sRGB/Denoiser OFF all the time instead of switching in and out of it whenever I hit "0". Could be personal, but I think that this is not a strange wish to have - especially concerning the denoising (which impacts performance).

Let me know what you think. Maybe there are things I've overseen or that could be improved even more.

So here's my mockup ...

[Andreas_Resch]

I had another idea last night. Not necessarily better, just different. I could work with both.

Here's how it looks ...

So by default, the preview rendering will ALWAYS use whatever is set in the Preview Mode settings - even in Camera Perspective View. However, if you have alternative settings in the Render Mode panel (and that panel checkbox is checked) you can use those settings instead by checking the checkbox at the top here. Again for EVERYTHING - User Perspective View AND Camera Perspective View (no switching in and out of settings). This is nice for temporarily checking the Render Mode settings. IF the Render Mode panel is deactivated, that checkbox should also be grayed out to avoid confusion.

Again the "Use For All Cameras (Render Mode)" checkbox will override the Render Mode panel settings - no matter if it's activated or not. The last little confusion that remains is if the Render Mode panel is switched OFF and the "Use For All Cameras (Render Mode)" is switched OFF as well. Logic would suggest that the default settings would be used now. Settings that are "invisible" in that situation. I usually am not a fan of invisible stuff, but I could live with that one. Nonetheless there are other options as well - like Preview Mode settings being used in that case ...

[linograndiotoy]

Hey Andreas, there are things about the Imager and Post Process features you need to consider.

The most important one is that as a user, you may want to use these features or not.
You may want to disable both, or the Imager only, or the Post Process only.
Ergo, the presence of checkboxes to enable and disable Imager and Post Process are needed, you can't get rid of those.

The Camera Imager is there to allow users to control Tone Mapping and other image related features, like Exposure, Vignetting, Denoiser and so on.

I often use it to "play" with different Tone Mapping settings and of course when I need to use the Denoiser.

When disabled, sRGB tonemapping is used.

The same goes for Post Process. Using it or not is just a choice based on taste and project related needs.

[Andreas_Resch]

That's all clear to me and nothing I suggested goes against it. This is purely about a rational usage of the UI and how to untangle the confusions/contradictions that are there now. You have no idea how often each day I have to cancel renderings because I forgot to uncheck one of those pesky checkboxes. On an average day this makes me lose probably half an hour in total. Maybe this will get better over time when I have the process "Uncheck checkbox -> Hit F12" internalized. But right now it's really annoying. And if it stays like that I will probably write an override feature into my addon to get around it. But right now it's not working as it is for me.

[J.C]

I don't know why the current UX/UI for working with imager/post is over complicated than it was before.

Currently we have:
1. An option in preferences that removes camera imager/post in camera object leaving only one imager/post settings for all cameras - simple but an option for imager/post is missing in camera object.
2. An option in preferences that enables an override for all cameras and on/off toggle in imager (preview mode) and a toggle in camera object (render mode) - user has 3 options and this is confusing.

I propose a simple global solution. This could enable imager or post settings for all cameras or disable it.

If user wanted to use other imager/post setting there should be a toggle to override global settings for a selected camera.

This workflow is used in Octane plugin for C4D or Redshift and works fine. Zero confusion.
Example from Redshift:

[Andreas_Resch]

Principially I don't mind global settings. But not sure if it make things easier or less confusing. We would now have three Octane Imager panels - unless you want the replace the "Preview Mode" one with the "Global Settings" one. Then it's two again. And then it's basically the same thing that I suggested above - just different labels. We still have to think about switching in and out of Camera Perspective. I would want to have an option to get away with not switching settings back and forth.

[J.C]

In general Octane Imager and post settings are integral parts of OctaneRender engine. They can be disabled but they have basic image correction tools that are very useful and worth using. Consider Imager as a Color management tools for Blender Cycles.
Since they can be enabled for any camera in a scene it is easier to control different renders having separate controls (eg different exposure setting for each camera). Imagine how inconvenient it would be having it globally for all cameras.
Sometimes just one exposure setting or OCIO is enough for all cameras in a scene that's why there is a global settings in 3d preview window. At the moment the imager and post settings workflow process and naming needs to be simplified, preferably as it is done in C4D or as in my earlier examples.
Here is the sample from Octane C4D:

[Andreas_Resch]

Yeah. I agree with what you say. I hope we can finally get a good solution for the issue. That's why I started the thread.