Imager/post UI/UX issues Tweet

[J.C]

The naming for Imager/post in 3d Viewport is still "Octane Imager(Preview Mode)" This is misleading as this is can be used for both preview and render mode.
If you want to avoid the confusion I propose more obvious naming that shows what it does:

1. Please change the "Octane Imager(Preview Mode)" to "Octane Imager (Global)"
2. Then in camera settings there should be "Octane Imager (Override Global)" switch instead of Octane Imager(Render Mode). This will disable imager settings in 3d Viewport for a selected camera.
3. Remove "Use for all cameras" switches.
4. Remove imager options in preferences.

[Andreas_Resch]

I don't think that this makes it better. The panel in the viewport should be for preview purposes only.

[J.C]

Here are some issues current system flaws at:

1. A the moment if I enable an imager in Camera settings it does nothing. I have to disable "Use for all cameras" in 3d viewport to make it work.

2. Imagine I have 4 cameras in a scene. Camera 1,2 and 3 can have same exposure setting while camera 4 needs different exposure. If I wanted to use different exposure for camera 4 I would have to disable "Use for all cameras" and adjust settings for all cameras instead of one camera. If global override worked I could adjust exposure for camera 1, 2 and 3 with one imager settings (global) and adjust exposure for camera 4 using its own Imager settings (override).

[J.C]

I don't think that this makes it better. The panel in the viewport should be for preview purposes only.

It's not for preview. It's a global setting for all cameras. Naming is wrong and misleading.

[Andreas_Resch]

Yeah. This is a tabled mess and we tried to find better solutions for it. I had some thoughts about it yesterday and I will post a diagram about it later in the week when I have some time.

[linograndiotoy]

Again, it's a mess as long as the way it works it's not clear.

What's the purpose of having Octane Imager and Post Process in the 3D view?

As long as Use for All Cameras options are disabled and Octane Imager and Post Process are enabled, the setting will only affect the render preview when we're not looking at the scene through a camera.

If we go in camera mode, the relative Octane Imager and Post Process settings defined for that specific camera (in the Camera Data panel) will be used.

There still a delay in the options when they are grayed out or not (you have to actually move the mouse on those to make it happen), but let's just ignore that, even because I would really keep it always "available", since once you get what the purpose of having separated Octane Imager and Post Process options for the preview is, that's not really needed.

With those settings, you can have any number of cameras, each with their own independent settings, and those will be showed as they should in camera view mode, while perspective mode will always show what's defined in the 3D view settings.

Basically when in perspective mode, we're dealing with a defined camera whose settings can be only controlled in the 3D view Octane Imager and Post Process panel.

Now, if we turn on Use for All Cameras, those same settings will override any other defined setting in each camera.

That's all. And considering this, the Use for All Cameras option name is correct.

Now, if this is creating "confusion" (my opinion is we just need to know how it works), we can do one big change, in 2 different ways.

The big change would be to get rid of the separated preview/camera view setting concept, along with the Use for All Cameras options.

That would mean that what's defined in the camera Octane Imager and Post Process settings will affect both Camera and Perspective view, no differences.

About the 2 different ways to do this:

1) We keep the Octane Imager and Post Process options in the 3D view, but those will just be a "mirror" (or a duplicate) of the same options in the current selected camera. You can edit those in the 3D view or in the camera data directly, they're exactly the same.

2) We get rid of the Octane Imager and Post Process in the 3D view. You want to edit Octane Imager and Post Process settings for a camera? You do it from the camera Data.

I like the first option the most, of course, since it's nice to have those options "mirrored" and available in the 3D view as well.

That's an important change, by the way. I think option one can simplify and improve the experience.

[Andreas_Resch]

OK. Here's one final attempt to find a way out of this maze ...

Thoughts ...
*) Whatever is set in the preview settings should stay consistent no matter if I'm in perspective view or if I look through the camera. It's all considered preview and the different viewpoint or focal length of the camera doesn't change that. Otherwise you will always have weird perceptive changes. In my case it would always switch from sRGB (Preview) to AgX (Render Mode) and the Denoise would switch from OFF (Preview) to ON (Render Mode). I don't need either of them in Preview.

*) The checkbox in the Preview panel should go. It has no real purpose and will add an unnecessary layer of confusion in combination with the checkbox in the Render Mode panel.

My suggestion ...
I've attached a mockup. As you can seen the parent panel checkbox is gone and I added checkbox inside the panel. If that checkbox is checked, the panel content is greyed out and the active camera settings are used for the preview - again for perspective view as well as camera view. IF the checkbox in the Camera Imager (Render Mode) panel is OFF (no settings for the camera are defined), that checkbox "Use Camera (Render Mode) Settings" has to be deactivated as it would not make sense. Instead an info text could be displayed.

So here are the scenarios (red is unchecked - green is checked) ...

"Use Camera (Render Mode) Settings" - Camera (Render Mode) panel
Preview shows whatever is set in the Preview panel. Final rendering uses Preview settings. (An info text could indicate that)

"Use Camera (Render Mode) Settings" - Camera (Render Mode) panel
Preview shows whatever is set in the Preview panel. Final rendering uses Camera (Render Mode) settings.

"Use Camera (Render Mode) Settings" - Camera (Render Mode) panel
Preview shows whatever is set in the Camera (Render Mode) panel. Final rendering uses Camera (Render Mode) settings.

[J.C]

Hi Lino,
I love the idea the Imager/post is easily accessible in 3d viewport window. This makes any changes to the look of the image quick and easy. Please don't remove it from here.

Still there are two major issues that could be resolved to make the workflow simpler:

A the moment if I enable an imager in Camera settings it does nothing. I have to disable "Use for all cameras" in 3d viewport to make it work.

1. Imager on camera object says "Render mode". It will not work if even if it says Render mode. If preview mode is not disabled "Render Mode" won't work for final render. If the panel in 3d viewport is hidden you may not know that there is a switch you have to disable.
2. If I disable Preview mode and Imager on camera is enabled, Imager on Camera object works but the options are grayed out. <-- new bug

Imagine I have 4 cameras in a scene. Camera 1,2 and 3 can have same exposure setting while camera 4 needs different exposure. If I wanted to use different exposure for camera 4 I would have to disable "Use for all cameras" and adjust settings for all cameras instead of one camera. If global override worked I could adjust exposure for camera 1, 2 and 3 with one imager settings (global) and adjust exposure for camera 4 using its own Imager settings (override).

Now go to Cinema 4d and see how it works. There is a global Imager settings for all cameras and each camera can have an override for global setting. I can have 3 cameras with same settings controlled by global Imager and one camera that has different settings. Not the way around.


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Hi Andreas,
you suggestion is still way around like it is currently. You have to manually disable Imager in 3d window to make the Imager in Camera object work. What if I have more cameras in the scene? Your solution is ok with one camera but it is not usable with many cameras as not all cameras in a scene need a separate imager. Disabling Imager for all cameras in a scene will add unnecessary work to to adjust settings in all cameras instead using one global settings.

[Andreas_Resch]

Hey, JC.

You've either misread my suggestion or I haven't made myself clear enough. But what you write does not apply. In my suggestion you can't even disable the imager in the 3D view. So I don't understand what you mean.

[J.C]

Hey Andreas,

let me get this sorted:

"Use Camera (Render Mode) Settings" - Camera (Render Mode) panel
Preview shows whatever is set in the Preview panel. Final rendering uses Preview settings. (An info text could indicate that)

This makes sense, but there is no switch to disable Imager completely. In general you should be able to disable Imager completely. You solution does not allow that.
Why do you call it preview when it will work for final render?

"Use Camera (Render Mode) Settings" - Camera (Render Mode) panel
Preview shows whatever is set in the Preview panel. Final rendering uses Camera (Render Mode) settings.

How do I see/adjust changes from Imager in Camera Object settings? Do I have to enable the imager in all cameras or will it use the settings from 3d viewport panel?

"Use Camera (Render Mode) Settings" - Camera (Render Mode) panel
Preview shows whatever is set in the Camera (Render Mode) panel. Final rendering uses Camera (Render Mode) settings.

Do I have to enable the imager in all cameras or will it use the settings from 3d viewport panel?

In general to disable settings in 3d viewport panel it is better to enable override in a specific Camera object. This way other cameras will still use settings from 3d viewport panel.