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Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:43 am
by wetfusion
i know octane have been updating and the old liveDB doesnt work on most material.
can the octane team update it?
the liveDB not only serve the users as a fast workflow, we can just download and adjust the attributes.
it also serve as an example on how to do certain material.

thanks in advance.

Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:30 am
by ceen
Yes that is long time overdue. Many broken setups and legacy stuff in there.

Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:52 am
by SSmolak
Why not to use default C4D Asset Browser for Octane materials ? With the asset version system you can even create many versions of the same material.

Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 11:08 am
by v-cube
+1 from me,

the material library definitely needs a major overhaul, it completely lacks compared to every single render engine I use!

I would wish for some proven / verified materials that use certain OSL nodes and gives the user an example how to use them in a real world project.

A few examples:

1. Randomizes tiles (OSL...)
2. Breaking up tiling artefacts (chaos node...)
3. 2 sided leave materials (tranclucency, transparency, use of dedicated bitmaps, etc....)
4. Adding parametric imperfections / dust / scratches etc. to a material using non bitmap nodes
5. Bricklike materials (multi maps, parametric grout pattern)

A lot of these functionalities are, although implemented, almost impossible to access for normal users, because there is no consistent documentation IMHO with some real world examples.
The only way to archieve certain results or gain knowledge how to use certain nodes is to scroll trough hundreds of forum threads in the hope to find a solution or a caring soul to help.

I would rather have only a limited number of really sophisticated and well thought out materials instead of a huge number of ineligible ones!

If there would be a possibility to get a cooperation going with a professional provider like e.g. Poliigon (https://www.poliigon.com/) I would be super happy to pay for this extra feature!
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Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:20 pm
by MB
I'm wondering if this should be something an "Octane Users Group" should take over.

It would need some representation from different industries using octane.
e.g. Gaming, Arch Viz, Marketing/Advertising etc. as I imagine some of the requirements are different.


A little technical support from Otoy would be necessary.

1) grant access to some members of the group so they can organize and maintain the Live DB.
2) provide a page/subsite on this forum, so the group can float ideas to the community, solicit feedback etc.
3) perhaps provide ability to document each material by attaching a standardized pdf.
4) ability to include lua and osl scripts in the library.

Longer term, provide infrastructure for an asset marketplace.

Thoughts?

Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:52 pm
by v-cube
Hi MB,

I like the idea, however it has to be backed up by Otoy and has to be implemented into the UI.
IMHO this new Library might just completely replace the current Library.

So maybe we have to structure our wish a little bit:

1. Real life tutorials
These would describe in detail how to archive certain effects and how changing certain node parameters affect the outcome.
I could imagine to e.g. describe different nodes like translucency / transparency in context with a frosted glass material.
Another example might be how to apply imperfections to a metal surface by adding dedicated octane effects to different nodes like roughness / reflection / bump / normal etc.
The Materials used in these tutorials should be present in the new library (02).

2. Library with limited, selected prototypes of real life Materials.
In this library we would collect materials that have been build and verified by Octane experts.
The goal here would be to universally show certain approaches in principle so it might just be the ones that have been documented in the tutorials (01)
The user could start here when he has to create a material on his own by loading and then modifying one of these predefined materials and then saving it to the user library (04).

Examples (mainly AEC...):

Window glass with water drops (after rain), window glass with dust / scratches
window glass reflective (sun protection glazing) with with slightly bulging surface (like you see in real life on some skyscrapers)
Window glass frosted

Concrete with parametric nodes that prevent tiling artefacts.

Brick material with multi texture (bitmap) functionality and the possibility to define different grout patterns / sizes, this might also be used for wood floors and similar materials.

Leave material, 2 sided with top and bottom surface, translucency etc.

Water material with parametric wave pattern and absorption (pool, lake, ocean)

Metal with different effects (anisotropy, edge aging effects, rust, scratches...)


(to be continued...)


3. Variations featuring a wider range of textures / looks
This would simply be the expanded library featuring e.g. 15 different brick materials, 15 concrete materials and so on...
Maybe the user might have the ability to choose how the materials are organized e.g. alphabetically, AEC topics ...
This would provide standard materials to the user which may or may not be modified by him and serves as a basis for assigning materials to objects in the scene.
It can also incorporate the prototypes (02).
It might be good to partner up with one of the dedicated providers of material / textures like substance, poliigon etc.

4. User library
In a perfect world we would have the possibility to use our Otoy account to have a cloud based, personal user library, where we can save our own materials together with all used textures.
Users could be able to share their materials with other users as long as no copyright issues arise.
Users should be able to have a synchronized local copy of that in case of internet problems.


Maybe a few seasoned users are interested to form a kind of "expert group" to discuss how we might build such a thing.
I could imagine for example, that we start with 10 guys (I would volunteer myself...) and each one gets to create one material.
The materials are then presented and discussed and optimized in the expert group.
Does this make sense?



best

Andreas

Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:44 pm
by wetfusion
MB wrote:I'm wondering if this should be something an "Octane Users Group" should take over.

It would need some representation from different industries using octane.
e.g. Gaming, Arch Viz, Marketing/Advertising etc. as I imagine some of the requirements are different.


A little technical support from Otoy would be necessary.

1) grant access to some members of the group so they can organize and maintain the Live DB.
2) provide a page/subsite on this forum, so the group can float ideas to the community, solicit feedback etc.
3) perhaps provide ability to document each material by attaching a standardized pdf.
4) ability to include lua and osl scripts in the library.

Longer term, provide infrastructure for an asset marketplace.

Thoughts?
Thank you everyone for supporting this thread and giving some amazing ideas. :)

holysmokes i cant imagine the amount of material if LiveDB became like an open source DB.
its a win-win situation for everyone, octane will have massive library, the person who make it and share can get the material anytime just by downloading, and other users can use and learn it too.

im wondering can we put "notes" and group stuff in note editor like in resolume wire?
https://youtu.be/Aq3PEoaRwic?list=PLyfY ... M1y_dlBf0Q

talking about materials. shout out to Nojs Graphics and New Plastics on youtube for some advance material tuts on youtube :D

Now if only a representative from OTOY will read this thread and can give feedback :lol:

Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:40 pm
by MB
Thanks Wetfusion and V-Cube.

I like the idea of a relationship with a firm such as poliigon, v-cube, do you have a relationship with a senior person there?

While not part of it, I have witnessed the evolution of some user driven libraries growing around Revit back in the day. Essentially a bunch of people setting up a server with upload/download capability, and a rigorous classification scheme for organizing the assets, all done without any obvious support from the vendor. At the moment there is a huge advantage with Octane having the Live DB as part of the applications UI. There is no need to drive awareness in the community so that people get the benefit, it's just there.

As I see it there are a few issues with the current library that users need addressed.

1) The aging out of many of the materials as Octane has matured
2) Overly complicated material definitions to achieve a result
3) Unhelpful Material Naming
4) Inadequate classification system
5) Many broken materials that won't download.

This list is about cleaning up what's there, it needs to be done by someone and a user's group seems to be an appropriate way to do it, that approach unburdens Otoy who are clearly too busy and who are working on high value projects beyond anything users can do. That's the best use of their recourses.


Going beyond a cleanup to address the above so that we end up with a more valuable capability.

1) Addition of a keyword search - requires Otoy to implement.
2) Richer and more diverse content - requires user input, possibly requires Otoy to implement.
3) <PLEASE ADD TO THIS LIST>

There are numerous issues around point 2.
The thorniest will be legal, copyright being an obvious one but there may be others.
At the moment it seems that it is very easy for people to post a material that includes image textures that may well belong to others and to which they do not have the right to redistribute. I'm not sure how you guard against this, but obviously every material that ultimately becomes available on the site needs to be vetted before going live.

Good content might require the incorporation commercial components, what comes to mind here is again image textures, in that these can be purchased with various degrees of distribution rights. If an Octane library was to utilize these; it would need to be funded which implies some kind of paid membership to generate revenue for such purchases. This in turn implies that fees need to be spent wisely to benefit all of the members and the various divergent needs and interests they might have. Taking people's money makes things get complicated quickly.


Where to start?
I think the first thing is probably to form a small group that Otoy is willing to let access the Live DB server so they can clean it up and reorganize the assets, and to set up a permanent thread on this forum so proposals can be posted and debated prior to implementation.

Otoy has some precedent of giving power users special status/access with user bepeg4d and the Octane Guru status. Perhaps they could implement an Octane Live DB Manager status and make it clear to the community that this group is responsible for its administration, quality and content, requests concerning the Live DB get routed through this group, etc.

I guess it's time to talk to Otoy. Personally, I am happy to participate in some fashion.

best

Mark

Re: Please update the LiveDB

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 12:11 pm
by henningricke
There are some great Ideas floting around here. Please, otoy guys take this seriously! This is something useres actually care about!