OTOY Forums

Update / Edit:

Added additional impressions after doing some more tests with the 2.24.2.4 version.

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face_off wrote:The have refreshed the installer at the top of this thread with:

2.24.2.4

- Removed the creation of material mix nodes when there are both normal and bump maps. Normal map is used if there is one, otherwise the bump map is used (if there is one)

I am not sure if this is already working as intended:
Installed 2.24.2.4
Tried with Victoria 7 and there still are bump and normal maps and a mix material in the scene:
Update / Edit:
Currently it seems the "normal map priority" rule only applied to non figure objects like props, wardrobe, environments.
It seems that figures have special more detailed auto conversion rules that may exclude them from the rule being applied.

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We now spent a week having a very close look at material auto conversion and it is truly impressive how many issues were already solved in this very short time. As far as I am able to judge it face_off did an amazing job and solved so many complex issues in such short time!

Some users also had another look at how to save DAZ Studio materials, how to use templates and how to use the replace map functions.
Because it cannot be expected to read trough ALL those long posts spread over different threads I try to give an overview of my personal conclusion AFTER I have looked at all those OcDS features:

In general after I had a look at how this is all connected and actually working I am a bit worried if it is even possible to implement simpler auto conversion rules without breaking how templates and features like "replace maps" work.

Maybe there was a reason why t_3 added all those maps and this whole system would not work with simpler auto conversions that do not load all maps by default?

Update / Edit:

So far I did not notice any issues with templates and the reload map function.


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Nevertheless if it is possible to implement simpler auto conversion rules without breaking other features I am curious about the following:

Is it possible to add more than one set of auto conversion rules?


My personal preference would be to have three set of rules:

1) A Complex Auto Conversion that gives the user the option to load ALL available maps as it was with 2.24.2.3.
This complex auto conversion may not necessarily yield the best result BUT it gives a necessary overview over which maps are available.
In addition this setup is a great starting place to apply templates and to make use of the "reload map" features.

2) a simple auto conversion that uses BUMP map priority

Remove the creation of material mix nodes when there are both normal and bump maps. Bump map is used if there is one, otherwise the normal map is used

3) a simple auto conversion that uses NORMAL map priority
Removed the creation of material mix nodes when there are both normal and bump maps. Normal map is used if there is one, otherwise the bump map is used


Having those three options would offer the following workflow:

- Set a checkmark at auto conversion rule 1)
- trigger the auto conversion
- check the results
- Set a checkmark at auto conversion rule 2)
- trigger the auto conversion
- check the results
- Set a checkmark at auto conversion rule 3)
- trigger the auto conversion
- check the results

That way the user has a very quick workflow to decide which auto conversion looks best for the specific object.

There are many different DAZ3D artists who create products with very different map combinations.

- A lot of products may look better when only bump maps are used because the artists placed the important detail on the bump maps.
In general it is possible to quickly add a bump map to a displacement slot.

- Some other artists may prefer the normal maps and place all the detail there. In that case the minor detail on the bump maps would not be missed.

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If it is NOT possible to have more than one set of auto conversion rules I would prefer

2) a simple auto conversion that uses BUMP map priority

Remove the creation of material mix nodes when there are both normal and bump maps. Bump map is used if there is one, otherwise the normal map is used

The main reason for that choice is that it offers a quick way to add bump maps to the displacement slot.
I am not a fan of normal maps because they offer fewer options how to use them.
With photohop you can get creative and transform bump maps into something usefull very quickly.
With normal maps you are just stuck with what you got.

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Update / Edit:
I made a test series to compare what the consequences are of the 2.24.2.4 auto conversion rule that prioritizes normal maps over bump maps:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=51418&start=70#p257033

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Other users please add your opinion.
Maybe some users would actually prefer not to have the mixed material removed and keep both bump and normal maps?
Maybe someone has a very good reason why they actually prefer normal maps?

Hi Paul,

I have tested over 80 dresses and all except 2 worked properly. So the issue probably is largely resolved at least for me. I can confirm the below mentioned dress (ArleyaDress) is still causing issue. I tested it for a third time. I am adding screenshots for all the DAZ materials associated with it for you to figure out what is causing the Mix Material node creation for it.
NGE Nodes :
2nd Material - Glossy (Looks ok - Bump map missing ) 1st Material - Diffuse (Not sure why this was created - The Medium in this changes the dress color) Original issue Best regards,
Rajib

rajib wrote:

face_off wrote:The have refreshed the installer at the top of this thread with:

2.24.2.4

If you have existing material conversion issues, pls test against this release, and if they still exist, let me know.

Paul

Hi Paul,

The second issue is still there. The dress is getting unexpected color.

The attachment ArleyaDress-ColorChange.jpg is no longer available

Details of the DAZ material and NGE.

The attachment ArleyaDress-ColorChangeDetails.jpg is no longer available

Not sure why the Medium node was automatically added with those colors changing the color of the dress.

Maybe the issue is that Octane is still doing a Mix Material node for this dress and the first node has the Medium set. The second Glossy node has the correct Diffuse Color and map. So again it may be the issue of Mix material nodes getting created when there should be only a Diffuse/Glossy node being created.

Best regards,
Rajib

The second issue is still there. The dress is getting unexpected color.

Can you pls save the Dress DazStudio shader as a .duf (Shader) and send it to me, and I will take a look.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Another problem to report. I am testing with 2.24.2.4. This is related to OR Viewport not updating when there is a change in DAZ.

It is related to the Mess Smoothing. As you know based on smoothing iterations, it can take some time to update the mesh. Generally any Mess Smoothing one applies does update in OR Viewport most of the time. But there is a consistent way I am able to reproduce this issue where the OR Viewport will not update after the mesh smoothing has completed.

Steps to reproduce the issue:
1. Load the G2F character.
2. Load a dress that is tight (easier to see the Mesh Smoothing effect).
3. Apply the Mesh Smoothing. Use a high value like 15 to 30 to see more of the effect of it. (If the Mesh Smoothing is not there for the dress you are using, add it using Edit->Object->Geometry->Apply Smoothing Modifier).

In the Octane Viewport the update should apply once the mesh smoothing has completed. 4. Now, turn off the visibility of the Dress in DAZ Scene .
5. Change the Mesh Smoothing iteration count a bit. Say whatever value you had chosen before + 1.
6. Turn the Dress visibility back on, OR Viewport will start rendering again and so will the apply Mesh Smoother in DAZ.

You will see the DAZ Viewport will update but the Octane Viewport will not. This issue seems to happen only after the visibility is turned off, mesh smoothing iteration count is changed and then the visibility is turned back on on an object that has the Mesh Smoothing applied.
Best regards,
Rajib

When saving a scene and loading it again

- the HDR environment preset that was active when saving the scene is not selected
- the texture used in the HDR environment preset is missing after manually reloading the preset



Workflow to test

In DAZ Studio
- create new scene
- place a sphere

In the OcDS Material Tab
- use live DB preset chromed steel on sphere

In the OcDS Environment tab
- select default HDR environment preset
- change RGB color to RGB image
- in the texture load option browse to C:\Program Files\DAZ 3D\DAZStudio4 Public Build\shaders\iray\resources
- select DTHDR-RuinsB-500.hdr
- set Gamma to 1
- set Translation X to 0.5
- Rename environment preset to "DTHDR-RuinsB-500"

In DAZ Studio
- save the scene as "HDR environment - load test"
- clear the scene by selecting /file/new

- load scene "HDR environment - load test"

Now you can observe the issues:

In the OcDS Environment tab

- Issue I: the HDR environment preset that was active when saving the scene is not selected
- select the "DTHDR-RuinsB-500" preset manually from the pull down list

- Issue II: the texture that was supposed to be saved with the preset "DTHDR-RuinsB-500" is missing
The other manually adjusted values seem to be kept.

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How it used to work before:
After you loaded a scene all the OctaneRender tabs were in exactly the same state as when the scene was saved.
Textures used in HDR environment presets were remembered.
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attached scene "HDR environment - load test.duf" as .zip

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When saving a scene and loading it again

- the HDR environment preset that was active when saving the scene is not selected
- the texture used in the HDR environment preset is missing after manually reloading the preset

I can reproduce this on DAZStudio 4.9, but not 4.8. I am guessing it is related to the DAStudio 4.9 bug where the old scene is not being deleted when you load a new scene. Would someone with the private beta build of 4.9 (where this issue has been fixed) be able to test this pls?

Thanks

Paul

Hi to Faceoff, Thank you for taking over development of this plugin.

Great, and regular progress, now seems to be being made on the OCDS plugin now that it has a new developer. I have been holding off from buying , but seeing the recent posts regarding bug fixes etc, my confidence in the plugins future has lifted considerably and I am now seriously considering purchasing.

So quick question, would the users of OCDS now recommend 'on the fence' purchasers to jump on board, or are there still some major issues with the plugin that need addressing. i.e. does the out of core memory function work well. Is network rendering working, are all of the benefits and enhancements of the latest release of OR supported in the plugin.

I am poised to buy. !!!

Cheers,

S.K.

swordkensia wrote:Hi to Faceoff, Thank you for taking over development of this plugin.

Great, and regular progress, now seems to be being made on the OCDS plugin now that it has a new developer. I have been holding off from buying , but seeing the recent posts regarding bug fixes etc, my confidence in the plugins future has lifted considerably and I am now seriously considering purchasing.

So quick question, would the users of OCDS now recommend 'on the fence' purchasers to jump on board, or are there still some major issues with the plugin that need addressing. i.e. does the out of core memory function work well. Is network rendering working, are all of the benefits and enhancements of the latest release of OR supported in the plugin.

I am poised to buy. !!!

Cheers,

S.K.

If you haven't bought the standalone or the plugin yet I would perhaps wait until either the final v2 or new v3 plugin is released. It's really great that development is going at such a fast pace now so it shouldn't take too long for a final v2 or a new v3 plugin to appear. Concerning network rendering and out of core memory I think that's still being developed as part of the ongoing beta development process so it's difficult to guarantee that all the functions you need will work flawlessly at this point in time. If you're willing to become part of the beta then the plugin as it stands now renders stills and animation well but if you need all v2 functions like networking to work flawlessly then wait for the final release. The main advantage of OcDS over IRAY for me is that the viewport updates almost instantly on my system unlike IRAY. I find IRAY pretty frustrating to work with from that point of view.

networking works like a charm meanwhile

swordkensia wrote:
So quick question, would the users of OCDS now recommend 'on the fence' purchasers to jump on board, or are there still some major issues with the plugin that need addressing. i.e. does the out of core memory function work well. Is network rendering working, are all of the benefits and enhancements of the latest release of OR supported in the plugin.
.

You can find a list over some of the biggest issues of the 2.23 beta version that were in place before face_off took over here:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=51398
In general face_off addressed most of them very quickly and there was huge improvement in very short time.

- Other users reported that network rendering is working for them.
- I did not see any recent complaints that out of core memory (for textures) is not yet working
Out of core rendering for geometry is a OR 3 feature and there has not yet been a word which OR3 features can be supported by the OcDS plugin.


are all of the benefits and enhancements of the latest release of OR supported in the plugin?

compare:
https://home.otoy.com/render/octane-render/features/

There are four big areas of the OR 2 release cycle that are not (yet) fully working or supported by OcDS

- Object Motion Blur
Camera Motion Blur is working but Object Motion Blur is not working in the current beta release.

- Packaging to .ORBX File (Archive of all Scene Data/Resources)
Scene export with .ORBX works for scenes without animated objects but there are issues when trying to export animations to render in standalone

- Hair and Fur
With OctaneRender 2 there was support added to render (not create) spline based hair geometry in OctaneRender.
The plugin for hair & fur products in DAZ Studio is "Look at my hair" LAMH
http://www.daz3d.com/look-at-my-hair-free-player
http://www.daz3d.com/look-at-my-hair
t_3 at some time said that he will look into working together with the LAMH developers to make this work.

Render Layers
Together with the Render passes In OctaneRender standalone there were also Render layers introduced to offer more advanced shadow and also reflection catching options.
compare:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=44267

Render Layers are not yet supported in OcDS.
This means with OcDS you can catch shadows on a matte object but you cannot yet also catch reflections.

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In general it seems before OctaneRender 3 is released there may not be time to make major changes to add completely missing features.
Maybe Motion Blur and ORBX export can be "fixed" but I would be very surprised if Hair & Fur support and the Render Layers can be introduced before the OctaneRender 3 release.

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would the users of OCDS now recommend 'on the fence' purchasers to jump on board

If face_off is able to keep up working at this high speed for some more time I think the OcDS plugin will be in a "stable" state before OctaneRender 3 is released.

Because face_off is also the main developer for several other software plugins we may see some time in which his attention is devided.
But the hope is that after OctaneRender 3 is implemented he will find time to address the remaining issues that may need more time to resolve.

Upgrade Pricing:

As far as I am aware there may be great and fair upgrade options available as soon as the OctaneRender 3 beta is released. This means during the OR3 beta phase it will not matter if you buy OctaneRender 2 and then upgrade to 3 or if you just wait for OctaneRender 3. The combined purchase price will be the same.

If you are a regular customer who is on the fence wait for
- the OctaneRender 3 beta release to make sure you get fair upgrade pricing from OR2 to OR3

If you are used to participate in betas and do not care if you spend a few dollars more or less
you might as well join in right now and be part of finding areas that do not (yet) work.

I am under the impression that especially feedback from new users who test every single feature for the first time might help finding issues that old users simply overlook.