OTOY Forums

IRAY and OcDS don't exist on separate planets. They do very similar things and I use them both. When it comes to upgrading to v3 I'd like a clear explanation of what new benefits it offers DS users. Hopefully showing examples of how these new features can be put into practice. Not all of us have a vast knowledge about unbiased rendering so its not always immediately obvious, without a practical summary, what a lot of these new features offer. Less jargon and clearer explanations would certainly help sell a new version.

The announced features for V3 came out 4 months ago, you can review them. The question is whether or not we will get a V3 of the plugin. The target audience for Octane seemed responsive to the announcement, not just on this forum but others in related circles. The reason jargon is used, is because those terms are used commonly in the industry. They typically are not terms made up by Otoy. If you don't know a term you could do some research. That's what I do when something new comes out that I am not familiar with.

I found the explanations to be very clear myself, but you need to realize the Daz community is a very unique one in the CG universe. In most CG circles you will find helpful folks, but you are expected to do some studying on your own. Octane was not designed specifically for the casual DS user. Changes are typically driven by the pros that use Octane for business purposes. So the announcements and new features are for them. Of course a savvy DS user can leverage Octane's improvements a lot of the time. But that is why I said for me, not sure about V3 yet. I understand the new features, but don't need them. But I might leverage one or two potentially. If you do some research and look at some of the examples provided, you should be able to determine if they are of value to you.

And as a OcDS and iRay user, you should be able to determine which workflow/feature set works best for you. Personally I can't stand the iRay/DS material setup solution, the slow feedback and a handful of other things. The workflow with OcDS fixes a lot of the issues I had with the Core DS shader solutions, and iRay(for DS) just inherited the quirks of the DS system. While in theory iRay and the OcDS plugin do similar things, they are worlds apart in how you use them. Octane standalone is a different story, I don't want to have to go back to that ever. I refuse

here is a link to the announcement if it was missed
http://home.otoy.com/otoy-unveils-octan ... -renderer/

The whole point of these forums is to share info and help others learn about unbiased rendering so telling people to do their homework isn't helpful at all. Based on it's price point and porting to DAZ Studio the Octane plugin was designed precisely to cater for the non/semi-pro market including those who work with DAZ Studio.

I've read the blurb about forthcoming features and think the info is limited and doesn't show how the new features might be put into practice and enhance DS. For example, how would volumetric rendering be used in DS? What do split render passes and OpenSL support offer DS users? Telling people to Google it is like someone asking in a physics class about quarks and being told to read a book. If experienced forum members won't explain how these these very complex features relate to DS then what's the point of having a DS forum to share information?

While I've received a lot of help here in the past, and occasionally still do, I think the legacy of too little info and sporadic updates over a long period in the recent past has left a sour note surrounding this product. The strange experience of seeing members who were once highly critical of the problems suddenly flip and act like a Stepford wife about the situation (possibly because they've been selected for the closed beta) also makes me lose trust. I think the advent of IRAY has created a defensive and slightly elitist attitude that I don't welcome and don't think will encourage new users.

It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by your knowledge of the force...
But by your skills with the Light Saber...
Err...I mean, the Octane Plugin...

Notiusweb wrote:It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by your knowledge of the force...
But by your skills with the Light Saber...
Err...I mean, the Octane Plugin...

*chuckles* What's the contest over? I missed the entry requirements.

Spectralis wrote:Based on it's price point and porting to DAZ Studio the Octane plugin was designed precisely to cater for the non/semi-pro market including those who work with DAZ Studio.

Plugin is third party, not Otoy. See how that is important? Otoy is making V3, not t_3 So you are kinda mixing stuff up.

I don't think t_3 has said there is going to be a V3 version of the plugin. At least I have not heard it. So if you are looking at V3 for now I would assume Octane standalone and that is what that announcement was addressing. So how could they talk about each plugin? I don't think that is a realistic expectation. Each plugin supports different features as it is and V3 is still being developed. I don't think any individual plugin has gotten a V3 announcement yet.

But I totally agree if we ever hear an announcement for V3 for the DS plugin (which would likely be after v3 is finished and the updated tools are given to developers) I would love to know what would be supported. t_3 has historically done a great job defining what will work in the plugin, and what isn't needed in the plugin. (like DS has it's own version of sub-d, so open subd wasn't needed).

If experienced forum members won't explain how these these very complex features relate to DS then what's the point of having a DS forum to share information?

I can't imagine anyone could tell you specifically how a product that does not exist would work in a program that may not have support for it.

Spectralis wrote:I think the advent of IRAY has created a defensive and slightly elitist attitude that I don't welcome and don't think will encourage new users.

I don't see that at all. We love new users. We were all new at some point. However you need to have realistic expectations.

The strange experience of seeing members who were once highly critical of the problems suddenly flip and act like a Stepford wife about the situation (possibly because they've been selected for the closed beta) also makes me lose trust.

This is silly. It's bad speculation and comments like this don't help how people view you. It sounds childish.

V3 and it's features have nothing to do with the DS beta program(at least for now). You need to be able to see the distinction.

I think the whole back and forth could have been shortened if I would have just replied to this one comment.

When it comes to upgrading to v3 I'd like a clear explanation of what new benefits it offers DS users.

When and if t_3 announces an update, I'm sure they will. (or maybe there is an exceptionally narrow chance that Otoy steps in, but that is not even speculation on my part, just a small possibility)

I think this comment is relevant to the recent V3 discussions. This was posted in the Poser forums in their own Octane 3 discussion thread. Post is about 2 weeks old.

Goldorak wrote:We're aiming for a pre-pre-alpha test release sometime in the next 4-6 weeks. Things can change, but that time frame is likely to hold.

Notice he says pre-pre-alpha! And this isn't the poser plugin, just Octane 3 itself. So keep that in mind. There is still some time yet for everything to get sorted. Octane 3 has some significant changes in it, so will be interesting to see how that all pans out.

larsmidnatt wrote:

Notiusweb wrote:It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by your knowledge of the force...
But by your skills with the Light Saber...
Err...I mean, the Octane Plugin...

*chuckles* What's the contest over? I missed the entry requirements.

Spectralis wrote:Based on it's price point and porting to DAZ Studio the Octane plugin was designed precisely to cater for the non/semi-pro market including those who work with DAZ Studio.

Plugin is third party, not Otoy. See how that is important? Otoy is making V3, not t_3 So you are kinda mixing stuff up.

I don't think t_3 has said there is going to be a V3 version of the plugin. At least I have not heard it. So if you are looking at V3 for now I would assume Octane standalone and that is what that announcement was addressing. So how could they talk about each plugin? I don't think that is a realistic expectation. Each plugin supports different features as it is and V3 is still being developed. I don't think any individual plugin has gotten a V3 announcement yet.

But I totally agree if we ever hear an announcement for V3 for the DS plugin (which would likely be after v3 is finished and the updated tools are given to developers) I would love to know what would be supported. t_3 has historically done a great job defining what will work in the plugin, and what isn't needed in the plugin. (like DS has it's own version of sub-d, so open subd wasn't needed).

If experienced forum members won't explain how these these very complex features relate to DS then what's the point of having a DS forum to share information?

I can't imagine anyone could tell you specifically how a product that does not exist would work in a program that may not have support for it.

Spectralis wrote:I think the advent of IRAY has created a defensive and slightly elitist attitude that I don't welcome and don't think will encourage new users.

I don't see that at all. We love new users. We were all new at some point. However you need to have realistic expectations.

The strange experience of seeing members who were once highly critical of the problems suddenly flip and act like a Stepford wife about the situation (possibly because they've been selected for the closed beta) also makes me lose trust.

This is silly. It's bad speculation and comments like this don't help how people view you. It sounds childish.

V3 and it's features have nothing to do with the DS beta program(at least for now). You need to be able to see the distinction.

I think the whole back and forth could have been shortened if I would have just replied to this one comment.

When it comes to upgrading to v3 I'd like a clear explanation of what new benefits it offers DS users.

When and if t_3 announces an update, I'm sure they will. (or maybe there is an exceptionally narrow chance that Otoy steps in, but that is not even speculation on my part, just a small possibility)

I originally responded to comments about the new v3 features and whether it was worth upgrading in relation to the plugin so get your facts right before attacking me. The only thing that's childish is you trying to police other people's opinions on this forum. I suggest we don't let this escalate any further.

No one is attacking you (other than calling out the silliness about closed beta) And nothing is escalating. I mostly explained why no one can answer those questions for you.

You may have missed I also question whether I will upgrade this time. Not sure yet, will have to wait till V3 is more than vaporware. I tease of course. I expect it to work itself out in time. I can wait.

I'm a huge fan of the Node Graph Editor. Is there something like that with iRay?

I've been able to do all kinds of things in Octane that I just couldn't do with Reality or 3DL. I found the under the hood stuff for Daz to be confusing and obtuse.

Something like Aeon Soul's Almost Human is easily used with Octane's Node Graph Editor;
http://www.runtimedna.com/110.1AlmostHuman.html

(Under the hood, Almost Human is a series of masks which you apply to textures in order to mix and match with 110.1 components.)

larsmidnatt wrote:No one is attacking you (other than calling out the silliness about closed beta) And nothing is escalating. I mostly explained why no one can answer those questions for you.

You may have missed I also question whether I will upgrade this time. Not sure yet, will have to wait till V3 is more than vaporware. I tease of course. I expect it to work itself out in time. I can wait.

When the discussion was started in this thread about upgrading to v3 I joined in because I was trying to learn whether or not it was worth upgrading should a v3 version of the plugin ever be released. I don't know what some of the new v3 features are and hoped that someone could explain how they might relate to DS. Surely someone with a lot more knowledge about DS and unbiased rendering would be able to explain?