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I must admit though that this pluging story gave us the oppurtunity to meet some great people through this forum post.

To rely or not to rely on a product being released at the end of the day is admittedly debatable, but to be the first to have a technology/ advantage that your market rivals don't have is worth the squeeze. Especially when you tell customers that you may have some new tricks up your sleeve on the way, only to let them down. From experience the duration its announced to released is about the same amount of time it takes for another to call you bluff. Understanding the frustration caused from tainted information... Its all too easy for the next joe blogs to say "be patient" when they clearly don't know what scenario those who ask "where is it?" have. To be honest its quite a complement i would think to have businesses and hobbyists so eager. To demonstrate to everyone on video's and pics then saying you cant have it when its clearly functional makes you wonder how serious RS takes their clients compared to how their clients take them.

Allot of things happen very fast in NZ (my customers can say "no" faster than they can say "yes"). I have no longer rely'd on this product for close to a year now for this very reason. Hope those who rely on it find some medium alternative for the time being...

Cronicash wrote:Especially when you tell customers that you may have some new tricks up your sleeve on the way, only to let them down. From experience the duration its announced to released is about the same amount of time it takes for another to call you bluff.

it's like having the exact date when the world is going to end (21.12.2012) just to find out, that it hasn't ended, if this point is passed. really devastating though

by the way, customers always urge to have a guranteed (haha) date. if rsl had not set a date, the rant would only have started a lot earlier - and not less intense. but still everony is resposible for what he tell _his_ customers. if i promise something because someone else has promised sthg. to me, leaving no margin for errors, it is still my fault if it goes wrong. this is called experience...

t_3 wrote: it's like having the exact date when the world is going to end (21.12.2012) just to find out, that it hasn't ended, if this point is passed. really devastating though

by the way, customers always urge to have a guranteed (haha) date. if rsl had not set a date, the rant would only have started a lot earlier - and not less intense. but still everony is resposible for what he tell _his_ customers. if i promise something because someone else has promised sthg. to me, leaving no margin for errors, it is still my fault if it goes wrong. this is called experience...

So we go find something else to rely on like mentioned lol...

Don't announce, its not rape if you yell "surprise"

If you don't want customers to speculate expected dates just say "coming soon". Works in the film industry lol. Has worked very well in the past here to when abided.
Otherwise no matter what you say its always going to happen.
Despite what customers urge its still better practise to not give info on product completion time vs play the boy who cried wolf...

Edit: especially when announcement date is not met 99% of the time. Your good at saying your not reliable btw.

Cronicash wrote:

t_3 wrote: it's like having the exact date when the world is going to end (21.12.2012) just to find out, that it hasn't ended, if this point is passed. really devastating though

by the way, customers always urge to have a guranteed (haha) date. if rsl had not set a date, the rant would only have started a lot earlier - and not less intense. but still everony is resposible for what he tell _his_ customers. if i promise something because someone else has promised sthg. to me, leaving no margin for errors, it is still my fault if it goes wrong. this is called experience...

So we go find something else to rely on like mentioned lol...

Don't announce, its not rape if you yell "surprise"

If you don't want customers to speculate expected dates just say "coming soon". Works in the film industry lol. Has worked very well in the past here to when abided.
Otherwise no matter what you say its always going to happen.
Despite what customers urge its still better practise to not give info on product completion time vs play the boy who cried wolf...

Edit: especially when announcement date is not met 99% of the time. Your good at saying your not reliable btw.

no. i am just good in not raising expectations others have to fullfill.

and by the way: some people tend to take a "coming soon" for a given timespan of their taste also. and would tell their customers some real timespans if they ask for what "soon" means also. and would still be baffled if their expactation of what "soon" means not meets the reality.

you just can't compare a "coming soon" blockbuster movie with any "coming soon" product - this is a whole different game. and i just can't understand what this rant is all about; the world is going to end in about one year from now - not at the end of this week...

t_3 wrote:
and by the way: some people tend to take a "coming soon" for a given timespan of their taste also. and would tell their customers some real timespans if they ask for what "soon" means also. and would still be baffled if their expactation of what "soon" means not meets the reality.

you just can't compare a "coming soon" blockbuster movie with any "coming soon" product - this is a whole different game. and i just can't understand what this rant is all about; the world is going to end in about one year from now - not at the end of this week...

Many products including other render software company's use this. Soon can only be a poor assumption (no foot in mouth). At least its not a number some developers gave me.
World ending bit a is a little bleak, even as example...

Rant is about "stop putting foot in mouth and leave people guessing". This product is like any other marketed merchandise and same rules apply. All have R&D and are subjective time wise as such.

At least with coming soon they aren't left waiting around on specific dates...

Hm, about one year... then i must pay my bills before...

face

In hindsight, the only "error" here is for the team to announce the delivery date as 1st December. Had it been worded as sometime early December, no one should have or would have got their knickers in a knot.

That said, it is as others have noted still a Beta release. I would never, ever, ever use a first release (or even upgraded release) of any beta product for any production work without seeing it fully tested in the wild for a month or so. To do so is simply courting disaster.

Hang in there, it will be live sometime soon - we can all have a play when it arrives

Its all very well to make justifications but unfortunately Refractive keep doing this stuff with releases and it pisses people off.
Following a big announcement complete with a demo of the working code to see eager customers line up with their money for 1 Dec and wait all day for the doors to open. No show from inside the shop until the next day when people are told to come back next week. Still finishing, Radiance sick (again..) yada yada yada.
The doors don't open on Monday either...
Having built up customer interest and expectations the mission bombs out on the actual delivery.
Refractive are not doing themselves or anyone else any favours like this regardless of the beta status.
Please guys in the future announce it when its actually ready.

Same old story Every time people get a glimpse of a new promising product they beg the maker to announce a release date. Every time the date is announced and the product is late people get angry ;] Relax, at least you know it's just around the corner. It's better for everybody if they finish it instead of giving customers a half-functional product with tons of bugs. That would be more disappointing than waiting a bit longer wouldn't it? ;] Anyways, +1 for OctaneRender for Softimage ... could we get a release date?