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Maybe Otoy should be pushing thier friends at Nvidia for an engineering sample on account of thier 1000s of hardware hungry users foaming at the mouth to get rigs filled to the (new) 20gpu limit with Pascals...

Otoy??

Regards,
Prehabitat - Doctor Spin

prehabitat wrote:Maybe Otoy should be pushing thier friends at Nvidia for an engineering sample on account of thier 1000s of hardware hungry users foaming at the mouth to get rigs filled to the (new) 20gpu limit with Pascals...

Otoy??

Regards,
Prehabitat - Doctor Spin

I see no reason why they should not, dr spin! I would care a LOT about the hardware my users are dependent on. And the GPU rendering market is indeed no longer trivial. Perhaps it's time for new mindsets!

Seekerfinder wrote:

glimpse wrote: sometimes I ask myself after post like this: are You joking, or are You so short-seeing?

mmm. You know Glimpse, your posts seem to normally look for some positive angle and I like that. But sometimes when you disagree with someone your posts get all personal and demeaning.

hi, Seeker, I have no problems with anyOne who disagrees with my opinion & as You noted I'm mostly possitive person (99%), but in Your case I can't help myself - maybe there's a reason for the tone? =)

protovu wrote:I have to agree. Quite put off by the tone. Not friendly. Not professional. Kind of disappointing.

Guys, I'm sorry to hear that, but specific tone was targeted to one user & noOne else.

Seekerfinder wrote:I do not have time to respond to all your points here right now but I will respond to this statement:

glimpse wrote:680 used less power & matched high end card from last achitecture, How is that inferior???..

Comparing CUDA cores to CUDA cores is what counts most when it comes to rendering speed. Some of us, after spending a lot of money converting to Octane got a real shock with the performance degradation between those two architectures.

"Some of You" should wait for solid results before upgrading - that's no brainer tip. if You haven't done so, that's no excuse to go around & blame nVidia or OTOY that You can not reach performance You were expecting..it was stupid move & that's it, swallow that & stop making false claims.

by the way, I don't have time to respond to Your questions/ideas as well & the only reason why I'm doing is to clear some thigns for others.

GTX580 had somewhere around 3.7TFLOPS of SP while GTX680 a bit less..~3TFLOPS..& that corelates nicelly with benchmark result (680 to 580, 63 to 52 in terms of OctaneBench)

Nvidia do not care too much about company with 150k users when gamers audience is counted in Billions..GTX line is meant for games. Nvidia done the move, marketed their cards for specific audience & it's not in their interest to provide You cheap cards for compute, as they sell Prosumer grade hardware for few times more.

Seekerfinder wrote:Of course Nvidia has to move forward with new architectures. But I will repeat that I think it should be a higher priority for any GPU rendering developer to engage their users with respect to new architectures, how it is being tested etc.

That's why nvidia offers Pro cards & once in a while skip an architecture or update that comes to thursty Gamers (where nvidia could sell little technological advancement, wrapped in code optimisations to reach better frame rates)..

again, OTOY done the best they could. & they pushed OctaneRender. There's no need to look for OTOY or anyone else blaming for Your ADHD. You or any other, should wait for concrete results before making purchase.

Seekerfinder wrote:So again, perfectly valid question. People need to make decisions on new rigs and if they know that there would be a degradation of a third of rendering power per core, that is not insignificant and will certainly influence purchase decisions.

Seekerfinder wrote:That is why I always find it strange to see a comment like "we'll test it as soon as we get one of the new cards". What guarantee is there that we don't get something like "Oh sorry guys, the new architecture turns out just not work great with Octane, but hey look, light fields!!".

680 to 580 goes 3.7 to 3TFLOPS or 63 to 52 in terms of OctaneBench is not "significant" at all..I doubt You would even notice a thing if You wouldn't see numbers under rendering screen.

Core count matters nothing if You can feed those cores with information & manage them effectivelly.

Let's give here simple comparison, realworld company. Just because You're going to employ more people to work on the same task & leave the same manager ontop, that doesn't mean more work will be done (due to inefective time/work managment). The same goes if You have too little people & overload them with tasks..discussion about cores is irrelavant as it's far from being single factor in performance.


Now the price..

Nvidia made a nice stunt during Kepler architecture days =) they sold 680 based on GK104 for gamers as update & left GK110 for Titan. Entirelly new line of cards that fill segment between Gamers & Prosumers. Then after some time they released GK110 based 780 with 3GB (& later with even 6GB model).

TitanZ came with stratospherical price tag of 3oooUSD at launch. It was ungheard before. To remind dual GPU from previous architecture, GTX590 was ~700$ card, while 580 ~480$. So it used to be that You get dual GPU for less than two cards, now You have to pay for three GPUs to get dual GPU card.

What You witnessed there was blown up prices that made a lot of people angry, but it was marketing stunt that kept nvidia to keep margins & continue inovating as they were putting a lot of money into CUDA, R&D to keep ahead of it's competator (that's one of the main reasons that msot of the fastest supercomputers in the world is filled with nvidia GPUs). Bottom line is that those technological giants are companies created to make profits for investors. The performance wasn't lost there..just product line have been shuffled.

glimpse wrote: hi, Seeker, I have no problems with anyOne who disagrees with my opinion & as You noted I'm mostly possitive person (99%), but in Your case I can't help myself - maybe there's a reason for the tone? =)

Oh boy. Not sure what your problem is with me but try not take things personal man... no one is attacking you, ok? We all get to express our views and thoughts here and we have a right to our opinion.

glimpse wrote:

protovu wrote:I have to agree. Quite put off by the tone. Not friendly. Not professional. Kind of disappointing.

Guys, I'm sorry to hear that, but specific tone was targeted to one user & noOne else.

This is a public forum Glimpse. And it not only this post where you come across in a condescending way. Try and respect the views of others without 'correcting' others so often.

glimpse wrote: "Some of You" should wait for solid results before upgrading - that's no brainer tip. if You haven't done so, that's no excuse to go around & blame nVidia or OTOY that You can not reach performance You were expecting..it was stupid move & that's it, swallow that & stop making false claims.

What are you talking about? Are you even reading the discussion? It seems like you're completely blinded by your support of Otoy for some reason that you *cannot stand* anybody saying anything except how wonderful Otoy and Octane is. We all like Octane. That's why we're here. And it does not mean that if we challenge something a company does that we somehow hate them or that we're nasty and mean humans. That is how both people and companies grow. So again, relax, you have a very aggressive tone here. Chill and try and give others some space.

As for the rest of your post, there are so many red herrings in there... try and focus on the original subject.

Seeker

Com'on guys

glimpse wrote:...
"Some of You" should wait for solid results before upgrading - that's no brainer tip. if You haven't done so, that's no excuse to go around & blame nVidia or OTOY that You can not reach performance You were expecting..it was stupid move & that's it, swallow that & stop making false claims.

forget about tone guys, one might accidentally hit another one's nerve (or not), but I guess you all mean well.
imo, glimpse makes a lot of sense though (like always), whatever the original subject is.

Nvidia is not investing billions to make new cards better for OctaneRender... the billion market is mainly gaming, right?...
so in relation to OctaneRender hope is more in place then expectations regarding new cards.
If you do not want to take risk with new cards,.. indeed, you better wait for Octane test results and then buy the new card just a little later.
btw, imo OTOY has been doing a pretty good job optimizing those Geforce gaming cards for rendering so far, looking at the render godspeed we have today
but that is no garantuee for tomorrow cards, is it?

greetz,

I don't see any red herrings in his post, really. He's just responding to many of the points/concerns that have been brought up in this thread. Personally, I appreciate how his posts bring some much needed balance to this topic.

We don't yet have any user data on how 1080 performs since it hasn't shipped. We don't know how/if Nvidia and Otoy have been working together to make octane play well with Pascal. Anything we discuss at this point is pure speculation.

If you are implying that Glimpse comments are uncalled for, I'd humbly suggest you re-read your own "light-fields" comment.

Seekerfinder wrote: As for the rest of your post, there are so many red herrings in there... try and focus on the original subject.
Seeker

glimpse wrote:...or are You so short-seeing?

glimpse wrote:... but in Your case I can't help myself - maybe there's a reason for the tone? =)

glimpse wrote:... specific tone was targeted to one user & noOne else.

glimpse wrote:..it was stupid move & that's it, swallow that & stop making false claims.

glimpse wrote:... blaming for Your ADHD...

glimpse wrote:... manage them effectivelly.

glimpse wrote: Let's give here simple comparison, realworld company. Just because You're going to employ more people to work on the same task & leave the same manager ontop, that doesn't mean more work will be done (due to inefective time/work managment). The same goes if You have too little people & overload them with tasks..discussion about cores is irrelavant as it's far from being single factor in performance.

As noted by a few; the tone in your original message seemed like it was targeting someone, then in the above you went on to both confirm that you were targeting someone and subsequently redouble your attack; "stupid", "ADHD", "ineffective (workstation) management".


I don't think that its OK to target someone personally in a public forum.

prehabitat wrote:

glimpse wrote: Let's give here simple comparison, realworld company. Just because You're going to employ more people to work on the same task & leave the same manager ontop, that doesn't mean more work will be done (due to inefective time/work managment). The same goes if You have too little people & overload them with tasks..discussion about cores is irrelavant as it's far from being single factor in performance.

As noted by a few; the tone in your original message seemed like it was targeting someone, then in the above you went on to both confirm that you were targeting someone and subsequently redouble your attack; "stupid", "ADHD", "ineffective (workstation) management".

Come on Prehabitat. He was clearly speaking about different kinds of GPUs in this one, not about people. Some GPUs might have more cores, but the main board might not be able to "manage" all that cores effectively. Let's not get all touch feeling about stuff here, or else some really brilliant people might just disregard participating in these discussions.

mauroborba wrote:Come on Prehabitat. He was clearly speaking about different kinds of GPUs in this one, not about people. Some GPUs might have more cores, but the main board might not be able to "manage" all that cores effectively. Let's not get all touch feeling about stuff here, or else some really brilliant people might just disregard participating in these discussions.

I agree with you on this particular quote; it was more an analogy of the internal working of a GPU than anything else...


However in the context of this one(below) it seemed like he was talking about the user adequately providing (information) to the cores...

Glimpse wrote:Core count matters nothing if You cant feed those cores with information & manage them effectivelly.

Perhaps I misinterpreted things and this ^^ was the start of the analogy Glimpse continued with his real world example? only Glimpse can say...

What's your opinion on the other quotes I made? brilliant participation? or getting personal?
We're all people; having a screen & distance divide us shouldn't be the last barrier to disregarding the respect (touch feeling) each of us is due.

Well said, on internet forums there's a screen and distance between us, and words without a human face or voice always robs our posts of context. Furthermore, not everyone's first language is English, so it's a challenge to both the poster and the reader to really capture the exact intent of every sentence.

Perhaps we can remind ourselves to exercise extra tolerance when on internet forums like this? There's really no point getting mad/offended/insulted by an internet forum post.