OTOY Forums

It feels to me like otoy is giving up on us DAZSTUDIO users.. The plugin in its state is barely passable as a beta and i wonder how many people have purchased and feel a little left out in the cold as all the other plugins for other software seem to be updated on a much more regular basis.

I love octane which makes this so hard. maybe there just isnt enough of us D3D users to make this a business for them. Maybe DAZ could just purchase the bits of code off them and do this themselves?

Liagriest wrote:It feels to me like otoy is giving up on us DAZSTUDIO users.. The plugin in its state is barely passable as a beta and i wonder how many people have purchased and feel a little left out in the cold as all the other plugins for other software seem to be updated on a much more regular basis.

I love octane which makes this so hard. maybe there just isnt enough of us D3D users to make this a business for them. Maybe DAZ could just purchase the bits of code off them and do this themselves?

I think most here agree with you. Personally, I have toyed with the idea of switching to Poser, which would be a fun project to switch my runtime content over. I've also dreaded going back to Reality/LuxRender, which would add days/weeks to each project.

I wish I knew things would be in this state before I paid so much money. It would've been nice for Otoy to more clearly state that this plugin is so poorly supported. A disclaimer that it is in beta is very misleading, since that implies it will be officially supported one day, and hardly worth the cost of buying it at this price.

I agree. I am working on a graphic novel and was hoping for a somewhat functional beta plugin. In this state it is not usable at all. Very dissapointing....

While we're still in "pre release", which in my view is more like a bastard child that gets no love, barely able to make fundamental things work, like oh say *animation*, to name just one...

The Poser plugin is forging forward, with brand new things like out-of-core textures.

http://johnkent42.deviantart.com/art/Te ... -513303493

It makes me seriously look into what it would take to convert all my Daz content to Poser, and forget all this OcDS nonsense.

leblancd wrote:While we're still in "pre release", which in my view is more like a bastard child that gets no love, barely able to make fundamental things work, like oh say *animation*, to name just one...

The Poser plugin is forging forward, with brand new things like out-of-core textures.

http://johnkent42.deviantart.com/art/Te ... -513303493

It makes me seriously look into what it would take to convert all my Daz content to Poser, and forget all this OcDS nonsense.

I feel the same way. I was more productive when I illustrated my stories with poser/octane. It's really a shame because the interface is so much cleaner in DS. My only gripe from the start has been the lack of compatibility with legacy features or the ability to convert/update older scenes. That alone would be a huge plus for me.

Finally! Someone has spoken the forbidden words. I've felt this way shortly after I purchased the plug-in and concluded I was paying for the privilege of "beta". I just didn't want to be the guy who gets labeled as Capt'n Obvious. Not to mention, I've already burnt some bridges at Daz voicing my opinion. When I complained about the state of the 1.5+ plugin I was told I paid for 1.2 and should use that version (yeah right).

You know, once they finish this whack-a-mole plug-in they will hit you up for another $100. To me its an unprecedented action "pay to Beta test". I'll give them credit for being original. On that note, I'm announcing I've already moved on to Blender. I only come back here to see if they've made any progress so I can finish a Daz animation project that I've abandoned as the current state is too frustrating and unstable to complete.

Based on the initial thread of the post,

...last but not least: as long as my work days are 14hrs+, i can't easily participate in forum discussions. if you need support you can reach me via pm, you now also have an online form - preferred, since it allows to quickly collect needed info (on my as well as on your side) - and apart from that i hope and wish you will be able to keep the community here kind and helpful!

It appears the developer has gone into a vacuum and operates on another channel. My guess is that he's burnt out (or took a loss) and has taken a hiatus until he feels the pressure or motivation to get back on board.

I don't entirely blame anyone for this issue, Daz in itself is poorly supported (just look at their manual, what a mess). I've had dialog with those guys and they believe their work is impeccable...that's a great position to take if it were true. It crashes unexpectedly without the plug-in and they release updates at random. Talk about moving target, with no accountability or plan.

Personally, I see a great concept with Daz and have put several years (on and off) into learning what it is capable of doing and few hundred bucks into the plug-ins. I even planned and scripted an entire 8 part web series using Daz/OCds. That's collecting dust and will probably never get created. In part due to the apparent never-ending development of the plug-in, and part due to Daz poor documentation, nickel and dime features (as in: you constantly have to pay for every little new functionality you need, which have varying degrees of support and are often third party with lots of bugs) and overall impression garnished by the industry. Nobody takes Daz seriously (except the Daz community).

FYI - I had actually got a paying project that I develop and delivered using Daz/OCds v1.2 it was a nightmare. I basically had to exported everything out as alembic and imported it into OCsa, the work flow was horrendous but I managed to make a really cool video (as to toot my own horn). WIth that being said it was such a traumatic experience I was scouring the web for an alternative solution and found that the only other programs out there that do rigged animation with GPU ray-tracing output are:
Blender - which is open source and extensively powerful, the downside is the interface is very difficult to learn.
Houdini - proprietary, but will give you a pro version for under $400 as long as you don't make more than $10,000 with it.

I opted to use Blender because its open source and tons of support, not many people have heard of Houdini. Anywho, I may check back in a few weeks to see if there's any progress. I doubt I'll buy the blender plugin (once bitten twice shy). Blender has a GPU render called Cycles. I think Octane is faster, but the interface seems a bit clumbsy and I don't feel like paying for another potential head-ache. Not suggesting anyone jump ship, just reporting that I did for numerous reasons.

My apologies if this sounds like a slam or is offensive. I think I paid in more ways in one to have the right to voice my opinion. If it helps you, great, if not, great. I'm sure others feel the same way.

My apologies if this sounds like a slam or is offensive. I think I paid in more ways in one to have the right to voice my opinion. If it helps you, great, if not, great. I'm sure others feel the same way.

I think we are all, more or less, in that boat together.
If I had known there was this forum, and been able to read it before I bought the plugin, I probably would have made different decisions about OcDS.

I am beginning to regret it now, not just financially but in the time investment, just as most people here.

And yes, I know about Houdini, which is even more expensive than Octane (but I think the results come pretty close). Good luck with Blender!!! The interface is insane, and reminds me of the game Portal, how when you click on something the whole world changes.

kraken wrote:Blender has a GPU render called Cycles. I think Octane is faster, but the interface seems a bit clumbsy and I don't feel like paying for another potential head-ache. Not suggesting anyone jump ship, just reporting that I did for numerous reasons.

I tried Cycles (GPU (ATI/NVidia) and CPU) and Octane Render plug-in for Blender. Octane was much faster. With Cycles + GPU, I had to wait 12 hours to get similar result Octane Render had in first 30 seconds of baking time. Before anyone defends the Cycles, it was a scene where I had the emissions pointing to wall to produce bouncing lights. That kind of setup, I had to wait that long for dark spots to be less grainy. Octane did an amazing job with this setup.

Imagine doing the animation, 12 hours per frame? Well, of course, I know the animators aren't that stupid and do actual direct lighting setup and dim to mimic light bouncing to speed up render time.

Speak of animation, my projects are now stalling... waiting for next plugin update with animation... hopefully soon?

I find the drifting reassessed development schedule very frustrating. I'm stuck on v1.2 because I bought Octane for animation and that's the only version that works with any reliability. Even then, if the scene is too complicated or a prop causes problems it's unusable. I agree with others here that a "beta" should at least offer some reliability across all its features but in this case only the rendering of single images seems possible with the current beta. I find this very worrying considering this is the fifth v2 beta release.

How can a plugin whose selling point is rendering animation not work at a late beta stage? How many more betas will be necessary to have reliable animation rendering? How many more months - years - will this beta stage go on for? How many more times will we have to explain to new customers that the v2 plugin they bought in good faith can't render animation? There seem to be too many important questions left unanswered.

Spectralis wrote:...I agree with others here that a "beta" should at least offer some reliability across all its features but in this case only the rendering of single images seems possible with the current beta. I find this very worrying considering this is the fifth v2 beta release.

How can a plugin whose selling point is rendering animation not work at a late beta stage? How many more betas will be necessary to have reliable animation rendering? How many more months - years - will this beta stage go on for?...

I tend to agree, but my answer is mostly that it has already been too long. Of course, we all have paid for this software for our own reasons, but for me, talking about it being "beta", and the quality of betas in a forum that everyone already feels the same way... is...

Well, for me, this is all like:
If I put a dollar in a soda machine, and don't get a soda, do I put another dollar in the soda machine? Do I beat on the soda machine, hoping and praying I finally get a soda?
I tend to consider it a loss, and move on to try finding something that works instead.

We've all spent money, here. What is your time worth, though?

I wonder what is Otoy's policy on getting a refund for plugins, or possibly exchanging licenses for a different plugin. I mean, there is an software activation process, so it isn't like I would get to keep two licenses but only pay for one, right?