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Those are some serious in-depth posts man! Thanks a lot!

Having issues with my render rig at the moment, and TeamViewer is being a pain.

Just to cover bases (since they may have changed on me, someone who can actually run Daz Studio properly should also verify if the options for map priority are still functional (they were in 1.2, hadn't thought to check in 2.* as I was still using mostly templates from 1.2 primarily). This particular one, last time I used it as-is, auto used the map in the diffuse slot for screens (like monitors, tvs, etc.) without issue. If this has changed, it is new behavior, and I can't remember the default template settings, but I think it is set to none. You have to actually select the templated node in NGE to see this section, it doesn't show up anywhere but there (the green one highlighted in my NGE is the actual image input node I templated in the material). If this is set to some other map or none (or static, since that keeps whatever it is, and ignores maps entirely), that would cause the same issue. Just crossed my mind on reading this quite informative post.
Looking at it again, the node organization was thrown off by 2.* when it was first prereleased. It added an extra, useless mix node for whatever reason to anything templated, which I vaguely recall reporting to t_3 early on. I clearly never fixed it myself either for this one, but the material still functioned fine regardless in prerelease 4 or 5, whichever was last before face-off took over. I do remember some back and forth with him about templates in general, and that was when I started playing around with settings in NGE more, but it's been quite a while, so I'm a little fuzzy on some of the details. Hope it helps out a little, at least, and once again, thanks for taking so much time to educate others on stuff, linvanchene .

I have not had time to absorb the contents of this thread so far. If there is a bug that I need to know able, pls report it in the 2.24.2 thread with details.

Thanks

Paul

Not sure I've read linvanchene's post correctly, but whenever I have an issue with the maps in a applied OcDS material template not matching the maps in Daz Studio, I right click the surface in question in the OcDS Material's tab, or the parent object when it's multiple surfaces, and select the corresponding 'Replace Map' option, for instance 'Replace Diffuse Maps'.

I use this a lot to speed up the workflow when using Redspecc shaders, first I apply a generic material preset that applies the correct Redspecc shaders templates to all the figure surfaces, then I'll apply a material preset for the actual character material that I want. I'll then right click on the figure in the OcDS Material's tab and select 'Replace Diffuse Maps' and then 'Replace Bump Maps' which then updates all the diffuse maps and bump maps in the OcDS Redspecc shaders template surfaces to the ones I just applied to the figure in Daz.

sikotik13 wrote: If this is set to some other map or none (or static, since that keeps whatever it is, and ignores maps entirely), that would cause the same issue.

I double checked if adding a checkmark at "Keep previous if no new map was found" would change anything.
No luck with that.

I guess we may find solutions or other limitations when more people start using templates and are trying to save them as DAZ Studio material presets.

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abayliss wrote:Not sure I've read linvanchene's post correctly, but whenever I have an issue with the maps in a applied OcDS material template not matching the maps in Daz Studio, I right click the surface in question in the OcDS Material's tab, or the parent object when it's multiple surfaces, and select the corresponding 'Replace Map' option, for instance 'Replace Diffuse Maps'.

I use this a lot to speed up the workflow when using Redspecc shaders, first I apply a generic material preset that applies the correct Redspecc shaders templates to all the figure surfaces, then I'll apply a material preset for the actual character material that I want. I'll then right click on the figure in the OcDS Material's tab and select 'Replace Diffuse Maps' and then 'Replace Bump Maps' which then updates all the diffuse maps and bump maps in the OcDS Redspecc shaders template surfaces to the ones I just applied to the figure in Daz.

Thank you so much abayliss!

I did not remember the "Replace maps" features included when right clicking surfaces.

Replace maps - simple template material workflow

The "Replace maps" feature makes it possible to work around the limitations when saving OctaneRender materials with template nodes as DAZ Studio material presets.

- 001 OR material after auto conversion
002 applied DAZ Studio material with template node
003 right click option - Replace all active maps
004 End result - template material combined with map in DAZ Studio surface tab
- - -
- - -

Creating a DAZ Studio material preset with templates on multiple surface zones

Now we can combine once again everything already discussed to create a material preset that includes multiple surfaces and templates.


Instead of dragging over RedSpecTGX user presets from materials to surfaces in the OcDS tab

you can
- click on the saved RedSpecTGX DAZ Studio material preset
- select all surface zones in OcDS
- right click and "Replace all active maps"

The following workflow may take some time to set up the material preset for the first time.
But once that is done it can be used very quickly in the future:

- - -

001 apply Genesis 3 Female RedSpecTGX to all surface zones:
002 use the clear texture right click option to remove all applied textures from the template nodes: Step 002 may be optional.

003 save as material preset - make sure to only select the option "tags" on each surface zone
Now create a new scene with any new character

004 apply DAZ Studio material preset 005 DAZ Studio material presets including empty template nodes loaded 006 Use CTRL +A to select all surface zones and right click the selection and choose "Replace all active maps" 007 character specific maps loaded


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k, I guess that covers it!

Special thanks to

abayliss for bringing up the Replace maps feature!
DrHemulen for motivating me to have a closer look at templates!
Elele for asking the right question to get this started!
Notiusweb for actually reading through this all and giving me the impression that my lengthy posts actually helped!
sikotik13 for motivating me to have a closer look at saving DAZ Studio material presets!
TRRazor for providing us with RedSpecTGX OctaneRender shaders!

Thank you all for reading and helping out!

Glad I could help with motivation

When I have the chance (and my computer stops being a pain), I'll try to go through some of my saved stuff. I'm nearly positive I have a few materials I saved as Daz presets that at least used to function correctly, but it's certainly worth verifying, and possibly cross checking with older versions of the plugin to see if/when it went awry, and what I did for those if they are still working correctly. I'll try to get to it no later than this weekend (classes are ramping up for finals in two weeks).

Thanks to linvanchene for putting together excellent tutorials in the meantime

Linvanchene you completely ruined my weekend....
Saturday I will need to read your post and the next day I will feel stupid while trying to understand just half of it...
Never mind.
THANK YOU! Thats an amazing amount of good information and I think it's worth trying to understand it, cause it will take the
renders to a new level once you understood the concept behind it all!
Your guys are great and pushing the Plugin into new heights with all those inputs.

Sorry for reviving this thread after almost half a year, but I think people should know, that the above mentioned procedure effectively leaves the shaders in a "broken" state.

Thanks linvanchene for diving this deep into the code
There is a problem with this procedure, though.

When using the command "Replace all active maps" DAZ Studio does just that, and since the new figure doesn't carry any SSS maps (which RedSpec SSS needs to function properly)
The SSS map channel is being cleared, leaving it empty.

We're currently working on another solution which should simplify the application process in a similar way.

TRRazor wrote:Sorry for reviving this thread after almost half a year, but I think people should know, that the above mentioned procedure effectively leaves the shaders in a "broken" state.

Thanks linvanchene for diving this deep into the code
There is a problem with this procedure, though.

When using the command "Replace all active maps" DAZ Studio does just that, and since the new figure doesn't carry any SSS maps (which RedSpec SSS needs to function properly)
The SSS map channel is being cleared, leaving it empty.

Update / Edit:

It indeed seems that the "replace active maps" feature has some side effects users might not expect when used in combination with templating.
I will make a new thread for those interested in discussing the current functionality and limitations of templating.

Update / Edit 2:

It seems in order to have the intended result of not updating all map slots when using the "replace active maps" function one has to add all maps that should remain unchanged to a template node with "STATIC dont replace with loaded content" activated.

compare:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=54497

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Btw:

TRRazor wrote: We're currently working on another solution which should simplify the application process in a similar way.

Who exactly do you mean by "we"?

Are you working together with Otoy on this so all DAZ3D artists can then use that solution?
or
Do you mean the Redspec team is just looking for a solution for their own products?

If Otoy is interested in more artists creating products with OctaneRender materials this whole process I described in so many words may need to become a lot simpler.

- - -

hmmm. I now have looked at this for another hour....
Are you sure that the issue is with the procedure and not with the way YOU set up the RedSpec SSS shaders?

I've never said that the procedure is the problem - I've said that the procedure currently leaves the shaders in a broken state.

And yes, that is because how we've set them up. Back in the day, when we released the first version of RedSpec, it was very clear that a complete integration within DAZ Studio was merely impossible (hence the dragging and dropping of materials in the OctaneRender menu).
But because OCDS has matured we're now in the position were we can make the dragging and dropping of materials obsolete and instead will offer a solution that will be far more integrated within DAZ Studio and very similar to the way you've described above. In addition to that it will be more convenient for the end user and faster on top of that.

All currently released shaders will receive a free update to include this.

Are you saying that the command "Replace all active maps" is really replacing ALL maps and not just those which are in a template node?

If this is the case (and from my research last week it seems like it is) we have to come up with something more sophisticated.
We do - however - have a solution for that as well.

Who exactly do you mean by "we"?

Witpapier and I - the RedSpec team essentially. Should we need things changed or tweaked in the plug-in, we're in permanent contact with Paul (face_off).
An applicable solution shouldn't be too far away.

Are you working together with Otoy on this so all DAZ3D artists can then use that solution?

This is exactly what we're aiming for.

Do you mean the Redspec team is just looking for a solution for their own products?

No, we're looking to find a solution every artist can easily employ and integrate into her/his workflow. We've tried to do it like that in the past and will continue to do so.

If Otoy is interested in more artists creating products with OctaneRender materials this whole process I described in so many words may need to become a lot simpler.

I agree with you - and I think this process and some more work in the future will lead to this eventually