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Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:17 pm
by Pavlov
hi,
not in the poll options but for sure i'd need faster export before any other feature. In a workday i may spend 1h or so just to export/update IPR.
Large scenes, even if optimized, may take 2/3 min or more to export to IPR/final render. I use properly sized textures, reduce geo, etcetc. Even with all kind of optimizations, complex scenes take ages to start and this reduces the benefit of having fastest engine in the wold :)
I think buffering to GPU in background while we work is an option - so Octane could send geo/maps to GPUs even if we are not using IPR, and when we run IPR it just has to load changed stuff.
Also keeping stuff in GPU within same session, once it has been loaded (even if we close IPR), may be an option. So next time one updates IPR or reopens it, Octane should just reloads modified stuff.
Hopefully there's something in Otoy plans about this for next future !

Thank,
Paolo

http://www.engram.it

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:45 pm
by CT
Is it possible to add False Color Mode into Live Viewer for checking the exposure, just like the noise view for checking noise.

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:08 am
by Pavlov
hi all,
this post is dedicated to a fundamental part of any engine which is somehow too poor in Octane, which is it's Nodal set.
I feel that before adding new fancy stuff, Octane should get more attention to the basics and Nodal is really one of these areas where Octane has a long way to go. Basic first :)
So let's see which are most crucial aspects of Nodal where Octane should get some love.

MIXER NODE:
Now we have separate multiply, mix, add (etcetc) nodes, with no masking and no percent amount. This is a big limit i meet several times per day.
It's needed to have a single, fully featured mixer node with multiple inputs (multiple maps plugged) and for each one we need a menu with blending modes. I know there is something coming in OSL, but this node is a fundamental part of any nodeflow and i really would not rely on OSL, which also means reloading OSL code each time we need it - unless you manage to embed it in Octane nodes so we can just add it like any other node.
More details about masking, percent and multiple inputs:
- Masking - an input where i can plug a greyscale map to decide where mixing happens.
Now, if i need to multiply two maps with masking, ive to create a huge nodeflow to mask maps before they get mixed, and this is very time consuming.
- Percent - same as above - most of the times i do NOT want to mix map 1 and map 2 by 100%, but in a variable amount. Once we have Masking, we can plug a float value there and this would solve, but again it's a matter of workflow optimization. The less nodes we need to get a result, the better. So please, put also a % parameter in new mixer node.
- Multiple inputs - please do not allow just map 1 and map 2 - make a node which can get as many inputs as we need, and allow stacking in photoshop -style so we can set mask, percent, blending mode for each layer.

Simplifying: just check Max's mixer node and just copy it.

TEXTURE NODE PARAMETERS:
Some fundamental parameters are lacking in image map node.
- Bump intensity: now we have to set a multiply node and mix map with a float just to adjust bump %. This is really a no-way, any engine has this kind of stuff. Setting bump % should be doable within image node.
- Alpha - now we have to copy image node and set it to Alpha just to use it's embeded masking. Again, a no way - any engine has a Alpha output which can extract alpha channel automatically.,
- Translate U,V and Scale U,V accept only float values (no map) - which means i cannot plug a texture to move locally a map. In any software this is a crucial point to get believable PBR materials. Usually scanned materials are small samples (3x3m for example) and on large areas you get bad looking tiling. Usually, you get rid of this just plugging a hi-contrast noise into image map's U or V position in order to "break" mapping locally. Thus, all green nodes in Image map node should be able to accept a full texture intead of a fixed value.

RANDOM NODES
Another fundamental thing lacking in Octane nodeset is a good randomization tool.
Now we have a randomiser which works for instances anc clones only, but in many cases we need to randomize parts of single meshes - in particular, randomizer should be able to detect:
- single polygons in a single mesh
- Parts in a single mesh (connected pieces of geometry)
And assing a random value to each of them. This is crucial to assign a random variation to a single tree's leaves, for example, and in a wide range of other situations.

GRADIENTS / FALLOFF
Octane lacks a proper gradient node with custom input. In any software we can set a gradient/falloff map and set a custom input (distance from another object or camera, incidence angle, slope, Weightmap, etcetc) and create a behavior depending on that input (example - bump fading with distance to camera, surface becoming brighter at the top, etcetc). Since some softwares cannot pass their gradient tools to Octane, it would be quite cool if Octane got a single, full-feature Falloff/gradient node.


In short, Octane is really awesome, but in daily production sometime i feel like i spend all the time i gain in rendering (which is superfast) doing nodal stuff which would be two clicks in any other engine. So again, please.... basic things first :)

Thanks for the attention,
Paolo

http://www.engram.it

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:39 pm
by frankmci
Pavlov wrote:MIXER NODE:
Now we have separate multiply, mix, add (etcetc) nodes, with no masking and no percent amount. This is a big limit i meet several times per day.
It's needed to have a single, fully featured mixer node with multiple inputs (multiple maps plugged) and for each one we need a menu with blending modes. I know there is something coming in OSL, but this node is a fundamental part of any nodeflow and i really would not rely on OSL, which also means reloading OSL code each time we need it - unless you manage to embed it in Octane nodes so we can just add it like any other node.
More details about masking, percent and multiple inputs:
- Masking - an input where i can plug a greyscale map to decide where mixing happens.
Now, if i need to multiply two maps with masking, ive to create a huge nodeflow to mask maps before they get mixed, and this is very time consuming.
- Percent - same as above - most of the times i do NOT want to mix map 1 and map 2 by 100%, but in a variable amount. Once we have Masking, we can plug a float value there and this would solve, but again it's a matter of workflow optimization. The less nodes we need to get a result, the better. So please, put also a % parameter in new mixer node.
- Multiple inputs - please do not allow just map 1 and map 2 - make a node which can get as many inputs as we need, and allow stacking in photoshop -style so we can set mask, percent, blending mode for each layer.


I agree with a lot of what you have said, but just FYI, there is already a pretty good OSL mixer node that includes support for a separate alpha. I do wish Octane nodes had multiple output pins for all sorts of basic info, especially RGBA for image nodes, but that seems to contradict their "One and Only One Pin" philosophy, no matter how basic and useful more might be.

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:57 pm
by yoscoob
Let's face it, Octane crashes sometimes - like any program. It's generally really really stable these days, but if Octane crashes in C4D the dreaded 'Render Failure' written in red in the Live Viewer is a pain! Is there a way we could restart Octane from within C4D rather than having to save everything and quit out of C4D to restart Octane?

Keep up the amazing work!

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:13 pm
by frankmci
yoscoob wrote:Let's face it, Octane crashes sometimes - like any program. It's generally really really stable these days, but if Octane crashes in C4D the dreaded 'Render Failure' written in red in the Live Viewer is a pain! Is there a way we could restart Octane from within C4D rather than having to save everything and quit out of C4D to restart Octane?

Keep up the amazing work!


That would be great, but I think it's a deeper issue with how plugins are loaded by C4D. I'm not a developer, but I don't think a plugin can tell C4D, "Hey, you know all that stuff you've already loaded for me? Well, forget it. Dump it and any associated files, caches, pointers, settings, etc. that might be corrupted, misplaced, or whatever. Pretend like all that stuff was never there, and load it again."

For stability reasons, I can understand C4D responding, "Nope. If you crash, we're not going to touch you again without a clean launch. There's just too much that can go wrong, and it's too risky."

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:32 am
by Pavlov
frankmci wrote:
Pavlov wrote:I agree with a lot of what you have said, but just FYI, there is already a pretty good OSL mixer node that includes support for a separate alpha. I do wish Octane nodes had multiple output pins for all sorts of basic info, especially RGBA for image nodes, but that seems to contradict their "One and Only One Pin" philosophy, no matter how basic and useful more might be.



Hi,
i knew some OSL thing was in the work (i think i've mentioned it) but for me, using mixer 100 times per day, OSL is a no-way since everytime i've to load code in the node.
There are already several slow-down factors in Octane workflow and i would not add new ones :) This is something at the root of any Nodal toolset and i really think it must be native.
Anyway, while we wait for Otoy taking care of nodes, it can be surely useful - can you please point me at a link so i grab it ?
thanks :)

Paolo

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:27 am
by KaDDD
please , it could be really cool to create an : extra texture maps like in Vray , could be really usefull

thanks !

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:58 pm
by frankmci
Pavlov wrote:i knew some OSL thing was in the work (i think i've mentioned it) but for me, using mixer 100 times per day, OSL is a no-way since every time i've to load code in the node.
There are already several slow-down factors in Octane workflow and i would not add new ones :) This is something at the root of any Nodal toolset and i really think it must be native.
Anyway, while we wait for Otoy taking care of nodes, it can be surely useful - can you please point me at a link so i grab it ?
thanks :)
Paolo


Depending on which form of Octane you use the most, you might want to submit your request directly with the plugin devs. The screen shot I posted in my previous reply is from the C4D plugin, where Ahmet has added a direct GUI interface for all the .osl scripts in your library in the Node Editor, so you can make the nodes directly, and they are nicely sorted into categories. Very handy.

There's also this interface in the C4D equivalent of the Node Inspector, which does a similar job. This sort of UI seems like it would work fine in Octane StandAlone in either the Node Inspector, and/or the OSL Editor.
Screen Shot 2020-01-10 at 11.48.24 AM.png
OSL Node Pulldown Menus, C4D


Part of what lead to these GUI elements in C4D was a discussion about how OSL is very powerful, especially with the number of handy scripts that ship with Octane, but is underutilized by a large fraction of users because the scripts were too deeply buried. This remains a problem with Standalone.

Here's the script in question, if you don't have the plugins resources handy. It looks simple enough to mod of you need more layers.

Code: Select all
color comp(color a, color b, float m, int t)
{
   color c=0;
   if(t==0) c=mix(a,b,m);
   else if(t==1) c=a*(mix(1,b,m));
   else if(t==2) c=a+(mix(0,b,m));
   else if(t==3) c=a-(mix(0,b,m));

   return c;
}

shader layer_alpha(
    color tex1 = 0,
      int filter2=0 [[string widget = "mapper", string options = "mix:0|multiply:1|add:2|sub:3"]],
    float mix2 = 0.5[[float min=0, float max=1]],
    color tex2 = 0,
    color alpha2 = 1,
      int filter3=0 [[string widget = "mapper", string options = "mix:0|multiply:1|add:2|sub:3"]],
    float mix3 = 0.0[[float min=0, float max=1]],
    color tex3 = 0,
    color alpha3 = 1,
    int filter4=0 [[string widget = "mapper", string options = "mix:0|multiply:1|add:2|sub:3"]],
    float mix4 = 0.0[[float min=0, float max=1]],
    color tex4 = 0,
    output color out = 0)
{

   out = comp(tex1,tex2,mix2*alpha2[0],filter2);
   if(mix3>0) out = comp(out,tex3,mix3*alpha3[0],filter3);
   if(mix4>0) out = comp(out,tex4,mix4,filter4);

}

Re: Which feature do you need the most?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:29 am
by Pavlov
thank you, very kind from you.
Tried it, it works but in Lw OSL do not have a GUI so i've to manage everything via plugged nodes, which makes it really unconfortable (i..e blending mode needs a node with integer value and i've to guess correspondances between 1,2,3... and add, multiply, etc).
Hopefully this kind of stuff will become native so everyone will be able to use it seamlessly :)

thanks again,
Paolo